Point shooting

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Doug Ridley

New member
I have been toying with the idea of practicing the so-called Israeli method of point and shoot where you lay your normal trigger finger on the side of the gun and point it at your target while using your middle finger to pull the trigger. Looks good on paper and in the videos but I have been pulling triggers with my forefinger for over seventy years and I'm afraid that no matter how much I practice a different method, when push comes to shove I would naturally revert back. I don't need two different systems confusing me when the SHTF. Maybe just use my regular trigger finger and try pointing that way. Or keep using the sights. Just wondering if any others have thoughts on this and thought maybe it would provide some discussion. I know some will disdain the point and shoot entirely. Any thoughts?
 
Most SD shootings (a huge majority) will well under 3 yards. Point shooting is effect and natural at these ranges.

If you find your self switching back and forth then something is wrong, you need to fix that NOW.

I'm a firm believer in using the finger designed to be a trigger finger as a trigger finger.

But that same finger can still can and should be the pointing finger.

We all know, or should know that we are suppose to keep the finger off the trigger until the instant we want to fire the gun.

So we combined the two, pointing the finger, and keeping it off the trigger.

At these short distances we tend, without thinking to point where we look. So if you are following the safety rule you should be, all you have to do is use your trigger finger to point. Place the trigger/pointing finger extended under the cylinder (on a revolver) or along the slide on a pistol.

Its totally natural, and it WILL NOT SLOW YOU DOWN. In extreme close range SD shooting speed is crucial. Use your natural sense to point where you look, and you will shoot where you look.

To test this practice close range (under three yards) shooting. Look at the center of the target, point and shoot. You'll see your bullets go where you look.

Ok after a good long session of this, attached a paper knife or gun to the side of your target. Go back to drawing and shooting as fast as you can. You will notice that the bullet holes will start drifting toward the knife or gun. Your eyes tend to drift to the threat, as you eyes drift to the treat, so does your pointing. Its only natural.

In short, forget the trick crap, use your trigger finger as it was intended to be used. Extend the finger until the instant you shoot, it will naturally point where you are looking.

If you catch yourself switching ANYTHING, you are doing it wrong.
 
Point shooting, as I was instructed, involves raising the firearm to eye level, not using the sights, and looking at what you want to hit. This is using a strangle grip and normal trigger finger. I haven't heard of the technique you described.
 
I had not heard the poor Israelis blamed for that gimmick before. Bad enough their situational response should get used as a claim for the superiority of Condition 3 and .22s.

It was, however, strongly touted on the Internet at one time by a poster known only as Smoke 'em Joe. He went round and round with ever more outlandish claims for some time before kind of drifting away.

You can get by with a lot of different substitutes for aiming at very close range. But a friend reported seeing his sights clearly outlined against his assailant's shirt at maybe five feet.
 
The technique of using the index finger to point the gun and the middle finger to pull the trigger was popular in the old gangster movies.
Due to the lack of skill of the actors??

As the others said, there's no real need to do that.
The middle finger has plenty of better uses.
Try it like throwing a ball.
Develop the form for hitting where you look.
 
Yes as others have said, 'forget the trick crap, use your trigger finger as it was intended to be used.'

You won't have time to switch between 'trigger finger' and the other.

At close range just bring the gun up as if you could see the sights, in fact the same way you do when you DO see the sights, and 'point'.

But fancy stuff like middle fingers is, well, far more theoretical than practical.

Deaf
 
I want as many fingers on the grip as I can get. Even a 38 or 9mm has enough recoil so that controlling the gun for fast recovery is important. I don't want to lose that control with one finger laying on the side of the gun.
 
I would go with your main trigger finger as mentioned above. The question for me as far as point shooting is concerned is. Do you use both eyes open or do you use the 1 eyed open method? From practice I try to have both eyes open but revert to using my dominant eye only. I do suffer from my right eye being far stronger than the other.
 
Wither it's point shooting or sighted fire.

Index and trigger control is the key.

Your index might be the 'stance', like a Isosceles or Weaver or one handed point, but it must be repeatable.

Trigger control is a MUST. Jerk the trigger and I don't care what gun, or even what range, you can shoot way way off.

And as Col. Jeff Cooper said, "If you cannot see the sights, bring the gun up AS IF YOU COULD SEE THE SIGHTS."

That is cause you have formed an index by bringing it up as you always do when you could see. A repeatable index that will work well in low light.

Deaf
 
It might work for the Israeli's as a training point,,,

It might work for the Israeli's as a training point,,,
But as a person who practices point shooting quite a lot,,,

I don't think it's necessary.

Here's why.

Quite often a technique known as Procedural Modification,,,
Where you change a thing in a commonly performed act,,,
With the specific intent of making it feel foreign enough to create a different learning experience.

In short we all grew up (if you are my age) hip-shooting our cap guns.

We al believe we are doing it correctly,,,
So we don't accept any suggested change in the procedure.

Make it different enough and people will open their minds to training in a new method.

As an occupational education professional,,,
I think I recognize that the Israeli's use this a lot,,,
The Israeli military always gets high marks in their training efforts.

They are very scientific and pragmatic.

But enough of that academic froofery,,,
Let's talk actual practice.

I practice point shooting quite a bit,,,
The guns I practice with are a mixed lot,,,
Their commonality is that I only practice this with carry guns.

Taurus 22 Ply, Ruger LCP, S&W 36 snubbie, and Ruger LC9.

I have come to a conclusion,,,
Actually three of them,,,
That's not too many.

Your wrist should always lock in the same position,,,
It can be any position (angle) as long as it is consistent.

Shorter barrels lend themselves to learning point shooting,,,
As long as you have the locked wrist thing down pat.

It takes a lot of practice to become proficient at,,,
Or you could be a natural prodigy,,,
I had to practice,,,
A lot.

Practicing is not a problem though,,,
Because it's just one heck of a lot of fun,,,
You get to let your inner James Bond run free. ;)

This has been my experience mastering (trying to master) point shooting.

Of course It all depends on getting a gun out in time to shoot,,,
If I am able to do that I will have some measure of confidence that I'll hit were I need to.

Oh, did I mention that the practice is fun as all get-out. :D

Aarond

.
 
I remember see that touted a while back...silliness.

I was taught point shooting courtesy of your tax dollars. It takes most of us a lot of practice. Correct form makes a huge difference. It is something you can practice at home though. Someone here posted a link a while back that covered the basics...can't find it now....my phone and the search engine here do not play well together.
 
When I lived in an open area, I did a fair amount of what some folks call "point shooting" with a K-22, firing DA. (.22 LR ammo was $.45 a box, though there were times when that $.45 was hard to come by.)

I got good enough to hit and roll cans at 25 feet, usually hitting the can on the first shot out of the holster. I did not raise the gun to eye level, but to a point about waist high, with the arm extended so I could see the gun.

Like others, I have never heard of using the index finger to "point" and the middle finger to pull the trigger. With a revolver, it sounds like a good way to learn about the barrel-cylinder gap (ouch!), or have the index finger interfere with the slide of an auto pistol.

Jim
 
This point shooting is nothing new, been around since the old cowboy days. Around WWII Rex Applegate and a few others started advocating to the army to train that way. It is a close range technique.
 
Define "close range". If I got in some practice, I would be reasonably confident of hitting a 12 inch target first and every shot at c. 20 feet. For very close range, which I would define as 5 feet or less, about any technique will do except some "stance" that puts the gun where a BG could grab it and turn it back. Beyond 20-25 feet, I would use the sights if at all possible.

Jim
 
Do you use both eyes open or do you use the 1 eyed open method?
Click to expand...
ALWAYS keep both eyes open

The last thing you want in a self defense situation is to lose half your vision, and people tend to revert to the methods they've trained with when under stress

Your brain and hands will automatically compensate for the dominant eye without you consciously thinking about it
 
Actually because of the physiological response of stress on the body, it won’t make a difference if you have one eye or both eyes open once the tunnel vision starts. Nor will you be thinking about it.
 
Well, I'd say 20 feet or less. I am working from memory and there might be some folks that have the exact story but basically there was a British (England) police officer that went to serve in a then British colony- I think Hong Kong. It was Chinese and that was their only holding (Fairburn I think was his name). Well these Brit police officers were not fast on the draw, they were shooting it out with the bad guys by using "proper form" and that took too long. This Fairburn figured "Do what the bad guys did- point and shoot". I think he analyzed it a bit and found there was a critical moment in this point and shoot, at the moment your hand is fully extended, when you are on target. More akin to shotgun than handgun.
Rex Applegate heard about this guy and they got together and that led to Applegate's "Kill or be Killed" book that included point shooting, knife fighting, etc.
One interesting thing however, that was done with double action revolvers and I think the finger started on the pull as the hand was moving forward, the trigger tripping at the farther forward moment.
One take off on this are the Cowboy Action shooters on horseback. As I understand it you use a chopping motion.
 
Jim Cirillo of the NYPD stakeout squad wrote about being suddenly confronted with three armed robbers and he focused on the front sight and shot all three of them. He said he remembered seeing the serrations on the front sight.

He said he shot so fast he was never able to duplicate the feat. The attackers were only a few yards away at the time.

And he used a 6 shot .38 revolver with NYPD issued lead ammo.

So yes, you can see the sights in a tense fast moving self defense situation, but, as Col. Jeff Cooper wrote, 'if you cannot see the sights, bring the gun up as IF you could see the sights.'

Deaf
 
I did my pistol training in Israel in the 1980s, with El Al and IDF instructors. I never heard of or saw that 'point with the trigger finger' thing. Sounds like a foolish affectation to me.
The "Israeli Method" has a proper time, place, and purpose. Like every other system, it will not solve all your military or SD needs.
 
I saw Bob Munden shoot one time. Shot from the hip, targets were close, maybe 15 feet, six shots in about 1/2 second or less. I think it might have been closer to a 1/4 second. Scary fast and pretty incredible. I read about Western lawman Hickok, he said he was always aware of the front sight although he wasn't necessarily taking aim.
 
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