PMC Bronze and Wilson Combat CQB

rodfac said:
New mags, and new type of ammunition...without going through the entire thread, here are some thoughts.

How's the ammunition shoot through your other 1911's? Can't recall if you've posted before regarding your use of 1911's.

Does the pistol itself have an overly tight lock up? Lug length, hood fit into frame etc. I'd these types of fitting problems would have been evident prior to your current use, however. Also try it without the buffers....

One of my .45's, a Sig, had similar problems with HP ammunition but would feed fmj's just fine. On close inspection, it had a feed ramp that overhung the mag well by just a hair; allowing the rounds to impact on the feed ramp's lower lip causing malfunctions.. As I recall, Kuhnhauesen says that there should be a 0.020" gap between. Ie. the top of the forward frame/mag well, should not overhang the lower lip of the feed ramp. In my case, I could improve feeding by changing the OAL of the ammunition by 0.010" to some extent, but eventually, I sent the gun to Sig and they fitted a different bbl. to it.

But back to the ammunition; do the rounds pass the basic "plunk" test that reloaders accomplish for overall length, round sizing and amount of crimp? And will the rounds chamber while hand cycling the slide? Another check would be comparing the loaded ammunition specs to SAAMI requirements. Specifically, the dia. of the case mouth & bullet dia.

HTH's Rod
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Sadly this is the only 1911 I have right now, in fact the only 45 ACP I have right now. I have been trimming pistols over the past few years as my free time has rapidly eroded.

Yea as mentioned above they pass the plunk test just fine. I’m not sure if I have tried slowly chambering a round, I’ll check that out.


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smee78 said:
That's a good idea RC, thanks for sharing your technique for doing that. I will give it a try on a gun if the problem arises.

As for your Wilson why not try the old mags to see if the gun still malfunctions? If so then the ammo is likely to blame, if not then it is likely the mags? I would also try shooting it with the old recoil spring. When trouble shooting only change one thing at a time.

I have ran this ammo in my 1911's before and haven't seem a problem with it. I like a lot of people on here reload so I don't buy to much commercial ammo anymore but when I do its usually the cheapest I can get at the best price.
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The pistol only came with one magazine, which was also a Wilson 47D (those are the standard magazines for a number of Wilsons). I have some GI style magazines that, IIRC, had the same issues (those magazines were made by Springfield Armory, or someone else for Springfield Armory). The old recoil spring is coming along next time I go to the range so I can and will check that out.


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If you were a reloader, I'd tell you to taper crimp that ammo. Your rounds are likely hanging up on the casemouth edge.
 
HighValleyRanch said:
What was the process for achieving that?
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First the back of the barrel is cut at the angle needed to achieve the correct gap. Then the barrel ramp is recut then polished to provide clearance for the cartridges as they feed. The trick to all this is to avoid reducing case support too much. Careful and accurate measurements are the key.



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LOL, this thread made me lose confidence in my recent 1911 build! It's been running perfect, knock on wood, and ignorance is bliss, but all these details got me wondering......
I tried shooting it with the magazine out, and only did six or seven, but they all ejected fine without falling through the mag well, or coming back into my face, so maybe it's not bullet proof, but OK for now.

I looked at the barrel and it's forward of the ramp, so that's OK as well. Haven't had any failures to feed.
Haven't run the PMC through it as I only have one box left, but it ran great in my Kahr P45 which is the most picky of all the .45s I have.
 
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HighValleyRanch said:
LOL, this thread made me lose confidence my recent 1911 build!
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Hah! Like any machine as long as it's built within the specifications of the designer, it'll run fine. I've found over the years that if the frame ramp has the correct geometry (31.5 degrees, .400" deep), the extractor has the correct geometry, deflection, tension, and the barrel is fit properly the pistol will just run and run as long it's fed good ammo through good magazines. There are a hundred other details that must be right but these are the ones that are show stoppers if they're not right.
 
smee78, I've done the same technique to several of my semi autos. Most guns of quality manufacture don't need to have their chamber polished to run most factory ammo but reloads can sometimes have a slightly larger base that doesn't get squeezed down by the sizing die.
 
I can almost guarantee its not the CQB, I had one that would feed a rock if you could get it into the 47D, and I have had several more that feed anything I stuff into them as well. If everything else you run feeds fine, its something with the PMC Bronze. If need be, send it back to Wilson for a tune up since it is a 16 year old gun. and send some of the ammo you are having a problem with. The Wilson Customer Service Department is second to none!!
 
tex45acp said:
I can almost guarantee its not the CQB, I had one that would feed a rock if you could get it into the 47D, and I have had several more that feed anything I stuff into them as well. If everything else you run feeds fine, its something with the PMC Bronze. If need be, send it back to Wilson for a tune up since it is a 16 year old gun. and send some of the ammo you are having a problem with. The Wilson Customer Service Department is second to none!!
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Sending it in might not be out of the question. I need a gunsmith to drill out a stripped set screw on the rear sight as it is. I’ll keep it in mind, thanks.


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So I made it back to the range. I started off with the same setup, just with a good cleaning (I wanted to rule out one factor at a time). First magazine went fine. I had one failure to feed on the second magazine. I took out the Shok Buff and tried again. The rest of that magazine and all the others ran fine. I’ll put the Shok Buff aside, at least when using PMC.

Thanks again for all the advice and education.


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I’ve never liked using Shok Buffs in a 1911, these were a real headache when I tried using them in my 9mm 1911. Keeping things simple always beats a science project.
 
Hmm, maybe it needed that extra jolt without the shock buffer to lock up? Is that what you surmised?
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That's my guess.



I'm not the biggest fan of the Shok Buffs personally. When new they prevent me from chambering a round by retracting the slide to the rear (the slide won't retract far enough for the slide stop to drop). That goes away as the Shok Buff gets worn, but still. The hotter Federal seems to run with it well enough.

Frankly I doubt I'm ever going to shoot enough to wear out the frame on this pistol. I'm not firing particularly hot ammunition nor am I reloading hot ammunition for it. In those cases I get it, that's just not true of me.
 
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I just found a guy on Kahr forums that polishes, throats the chambers and gives more freebore so that it will take rounds no matter how long the OAL. So I sent off my P45 barrel to him. We shall see if this helps the Kahr to eat more variety of loads. My reloads fit fine now that I have it set up properly, but it doesn't like certain brands of SD ammo I like.
If the removal of the shock buff doesn't work, this is something you might want to consider.
If the WC has a match chamber, it could be a similar problem as my Walther barrel. I read on the Kahr forums this is typical of the .45s.
 
What a beautiful pistol to own, TR. I have long ogled at Wilson's line of .45's. Having fired a few Kimbers, and been impressed with them, I hope one day to get my hands on any of Mr. Wilson's 1911's. They are works of art to my eyes, I bet your are proud of that one.
 
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Thanks, I do enjoy it. Whoever owned it before me did a good job taking care of if and I plan to continue that. I have blued pistols that I think are more aesthetically pleasing, but I appreciate the machining and fitment of this (the slide to frame fit and crispness of the controls from trigger to safety were well above the Colt Gold Cup I handled at the same time).

I’ve owned Colt, S&W, and Springfield Armory 1911s in the past and this does seem nicer. I’ll be honest and say that for the relatively little amount of shooting I do with 1911s I think a used Wilson is about the most I’d spend personally. As much as I appreciate the Wilson I’d be lying if I said I shoot this dramatically better than the Range Officer I owned; I’m the limiting factor.


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Wow--beautiful piece, TR. Thank you for taking the time to share the photos.

I do know the Wilson is a premium, and if you aren't a great shooter, perhaps the added cost is not worth the stretch vis a vis training and ammunition to the average shooter (I'd put myself in this category).

Nevertheless, the high end of anything is alluring. And a Wilson certainly fits that billing to a T.

I myself have a junk 1911 that my father and I built from a box of parts and I'm looking to purchase a new one of finer repute. The wife would probably tar and feather me if I bought a Wilson, but I am looking at a new 1911 towards the latter end of this year. Decisions, decisions. :)
 
That’s nice though to have a firearm that has memories to it, such as building it with your father.


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No doubt, we were going to work on a better one and then Covid hit, and then he fell and broke his hip. Still trying to get back to building a quality 1911 together with parts we pick this time, from the best of the best. It'll be fun.

Something about the feel of a quality 1911, to say nothing of the history. It just is so American. Love that.
 
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