PMC Bronze and Wilson Combat CQB

T

TunnelRat

New member
Hi all,
In late summer of 2020 I picked up a used Wilson Combat CQB in 45 ACP, circa 2005. It had been a solid pistol so far using 230 gr Federal Ultra Target and Range and 230 gr S&B.

Like a lot of people my ammunition choices these days is limited. One of the stores local to me does get in PMC bronze fairly regularly for prices that aren’t outrageous. This is 230 gr brass cased FMJ ammunition. Locally it’s really about the only factory ammunition in stock regularly and the store is pricing it at around $0.60 a round, which is a lot cheaper than a number of the online sources.

The first trip out saw multiple failures to feed, often multiple times per magazines. The rounds wouldn’t chamber fully. Usually a smack to the rear of the slide saw the round chamber and they all fired fine once they fed.

I’m using relatively new Wilson Combat 47D magazines and the recoil spring in the pistol is also new, this one here:
https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Flat-W...-45-ACP-Chrome-Silicon-17-Lb/productinfo/614/

Ideally I would just use rounds I know work. I don’t have that availability currently. Before this the pistol had one failure to extract in 460 rounds. This sudden rash of malfunctions leads me to believe it is the ammunition. I looked over at the 1911 forum and I found mixed reports, some saying PMC Bronze worked fine with their Wilsons, others saying it wouldn’t work at all.

Any advice on what I could do to perhaps make this ammunition run more reliably? A different recoil spring maybe? I am using Shok-Buffs so perhaps trying without those?

Thanks
-TR


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When I plunk test a number of the rounds in the boxes I still have they seem to pass. They drop in and fall out smoothly. When I rotate the rounds after dropping them into the chamber they rotate freely.

Since I still have a box of the Federal Ultra Target I compared the plunk test between those and the PMC and they seemed the same to me.


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Good, that's the first thing I do. I check to make sure that the back of the case is even with the rear of the hood so I know that the rounds OAL is not too long.

The only other thing I can suggest is that my .45 had problems closing all the way, and I found that I was simply running too dry. I could feel it catching before closing all the way, so I simply oiled the lockup and where the barrel goes into the barrel bushing (found a whole article about how someone's barrel bushing was too tight) and then the 1911 ran smooth as a watch. Up to that point I had to smack the back of the slide to get the rounds to seat.
 
I generally run my 1911s with a fair amount of lubrication. I do a light film of Slip 2000 on the barrel and bushing and Slide Glide on the rails. This is New England in the winter, but it was above freezing when I shot it.

I gave the pistol a good cleaning and relubricated it. I’ll try again and see where I end up. At that point I can try removing the Shok Buf, using the original recoil spring as opposed to the flat wire, etc. It would be nice if I could get this to work since this ammunition is available and at least affordable. I bought some PMC bronze in 9mm a few months back and it has worked well so I was hoping I’d have similar luck.


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I've had bad experiences with PMC bronze. I'd rather anti-up and buy the all too high priced stuff. It's that important, unless used for practicing.
 
I have a solution that will work if cleaning along doesn't fix your problem. I've done it on several guns.

Take a fired case and drill the primer pocket. Use a plier to hold the case head from rotating when you drill. Then run a bolt through the case and place a nut on the back to lock it in place. The bolt is now a shank you chuck in your drill. Then get some polish like red rouge that comes with a dremel. You don't need a fancy flex hone to polish a chamber.

Get a rag and holding the barrel firmly insert the case coated with rouge into the chamber on your drill while spinning. It will probably catch on a tight spot and may want to torque in your hand. The brass won't hurt the steel chamber. The rag will protect your hand if the barrel starts to torque on you. Work that case in and out until it doesn't catch in the chamber anymore and spins smoothly while you work it in and out. Don't let is spin in one spot. Go shooting and smile. This treatment will allow the rounds you bought to seat fully in the chamber. They may be a hundredth or two larger than federal and that's why you are having to bump the slide. If a gun won't chamber my reloads, I just polish the chamber a little and plunk. Works like a champ.
 
That PMC factory FMJ .45ACP ammo would never be my first choice if I had other choices. But these days if you can get it for $30/box I’d buy all I could get and then figure out a way to make it work. First of all, you’re running your 1911 “wet” which is good. Secondly, ditch the ShokBuf, (IMHO) not needed with standard factory ammo, my own experience with these in the past with 1911’s has not been good. Third, the WC 47D magazines are solid merch, I’ve used them for years. Fourth, if the barrel needs a throat & polish, which could be a first for a WC 1911 barrel, then (IMHO) that is a professional gunsmithing task. Fifth, perform an extraction test per the below link, then keep us posted;

https://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=131
 
When I’ve used it, PMC FMJ works OK with my Gen4 G-21 and my HK45. I remember that Cabelas used to have it but I was usually buying either Blazer Brass or Fed AE, which I’d rather use with the 1911’s.
 
The polishing has never hurt any of my guns but it has helped them cycle much better. Some chambers are pretty rough.
 
rc said:
The polishing has never hurt any of my guns but it has helped them cycle much better. Some chambers are pretty rough.
Click to expand...


I understand. Based on what I can see visually and the results of the plunk test I am not convinced that in this case the chamber is particularly rough, but I will keep that in mind.


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Given Wilson's excellent reputation it's unlikely that the pistol is at fault. It may be that PMC's QC is off and the case rims are way too big in terms of diameter. Just for the heck of it use calipers to measure the diameter of a number of unfired rounds. You want all case rims to be around .475" in diameter.

If there are rims with diameters greater than about .470", the Wilson extractor may not have been fitted to handle them and the extra diameter is causing excessive force to be applied against the extractor resulting in a stoppage.

For everything you ever wanted to know about extractors go to this LINK.
 
The last thing I would do is roto-rooter the gun and maybe void the warranty. If some different ammo doesn’t work, send it back to Wilson
 
When you take a brass case and spin it in the chamber it's very mild and not a roto router job. It's like firing your gun thousands upon thousands of time without expending the ammo to achieve reliability. The chambers may be perfectly in spec but there can still be slight tool marks that can affect the grippyness of the chamber walls and cause sluggish chambering or extraction. You are not looking for a mirror shine, only to get it so it's well broken in. I had all manner of malfunctions with my Kahr till I polished the chamber. Then is started running right. It's much more unpredictable to throat a barrel by hand with a rubber polishing point than using a fired case that fits the chamber.
 
new Wilson Combat 47D magazines....230 gr brass cased FMJ ammunition [ie. new to your use]...
Click to expand...
New mags, and new type of ammunition...without going through the entire thread, here are some thoughts.

How's the ammunition shoot through your other 1911's? Can't recall if you've posted before regarding your use of 1911's.

Does the pistol itself have an overly tight lock up? Lug length, hood fit into frame etc. I'd these types of fitting problems would have been evident prior to your current use, however. Also try it without the buffers....

One of my .45's, a Sig, had similar problems with HP ammunition but would feed fmj's just fine. On close inspection, it had a feed ramp that overhung the mag well by just a hair; allowing the rounds to impact on the feed ramp's lower lip causing malfunctions.. As I recall, Kuhnhauesen says that there should be a 0.020" gap between. Ie. the top of the forward frame/mag well, should not overhang the lower lip of the feed ramp. In my case, I could improve feeding by changing the OAL of the ammunition by 0.010" to some extent, but eventually, I sent the gun to Sig and they fitted a different bbl. to it.

But back to the ammunition; do the rounds pass the basic "plunk" test that reloaders accomplish for overall length, round sizing and amount of crimp? And will the rounds chamber while hand cycling the slide? Another check would be comparing the loaded ammunition specs to SAAMI requirements. Specifically, the dia. of the case mouth & bullet dia.

HTH's Rod
 
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That's a good idea RC, thanks for sharing your technique for doing that. I will give it a try on a gun if the problem arises.

As for your Wilson why not try the old mags to see if the gun still malfunctions? If so then the ammo is likely to blame, if not then it is likely the mags? I would also try shooting it with the old recoil spring. When trouble shooting only change one thing at a time.

I have ran this ammo in my 1911's before and haven't seem a problem with it. I like a lot of people on here reload so I don't buy to much commercial ammo anymore but when I do its usually the cheapest I can get at the best price.
 
rodfac said:
As I recall, Kuhnhauesen says that there should be a 0.020" gap . . .
Click to expand...
Just a quick clarification. With the barrel fully down and back against the VIS the gap between the top of the frame ramp and the bottom of the barrel ramp should be 1/32" (.03125"). The gap can be bigger but should not be smaller.

Here's an incorrectly fit barrel:
v4aPPg0.jpg



Here's the same barrel after it has been corrected to provide necessary gap:
DIHnX6H.jpg
 
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