Please stop with the 'ENERGY' BS

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Preserve freedom...your first quote of me is a tad out of context, I questioned whether the vest was part of the target. Replace vest with six foot six, 460lbs and meaner than a junk yard dawg.

Second quote right on. However, total penetration is not necessairily a complete loss. If that bullet happened to go through a vertibrae in passing, it did it's job quite well. Either way, the one that stops in the first eight inches of fat and muscle is going to do you less good than the one that goes through and makes a few hydraulic leaks.

Bullet performance and accuracy are paramount. It takes energy to make a bullet perform, some bullets take a lot more energy to perform the job. But they all take energy.

E=MV² won't go away.

Sam
 
Sam,

Returning to our "physics formulas" discussion, I just confirmed from a couple of old college physics texts and a few Internet pages that:

1. Kinetic energy is the energy of motion. The kinetic energy of an object is the energy it possesses because of its motion. The kinetic energy of a point mass is given by: One Half x Mass x Velocity Squared

2. Kinetic energy is an expression of the fact that a moving object can do work on anything it hits; it quantifies the amount of work the object could do because of its motion.

Accordingly, I strongly believe my original posted (.5)(M)(V)(V) formula is correct, based on the foregoing.

Please check http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/ke.html#ke for confirmation and for details.

Best regards.

[This message has been edited by RWK (edited September 06, 2000).]
 
Sorry 355Sigfan, but you are mistaken about the .223 being rated over the .45. Look at S&M's charts and you will see that they do indeed rate the slow, fat, low energy 230gr Hydrashok as their TOP load.

Of the .357 Magnum, .357 Sig, 10mm, .44 Magnum, .40 caliber and every other high energy defensive pistol cartridge out there, only ONE load has the distinction of having a %100 OSS rating, and that is the old fat and slow 230gr Hydrashok from a service sized handgun.

In Sanow's latest article, he said that the 230gr HS had the absolute top rating with an amazing %100 OSS from a 5 inch barrel. And, the 230gr Gold Dot is right up there next to it according to him.

AND, this 230gr HS load rates above most all .223 loads! Yep, that's right the old, fat, slow, low energy 230 .45 rates above the .223 from a rifle, and it rates above all other pistol loads.

So, what do you have to say? Even your own icons tell you that energy does not mean anything. The 230gr HS is one of the lowest energy loads on their charts, and it is the top rated load.

If you look at their charts, you will see a whole lot of .45 loads rated over other .223 loads.

In fact, the .45 with a humble 369 fpe, and the .223 with 1400 fpe, and the 12 guage shotgun with 2500 fpe all rate the same on their charts! Seems to me that energy (fpe) has absolutely nothing to do with stopping power, or else the .45 would fail miserably.

Wow, that .45 is one awesome round. I never realized I was carrying the equivalent of a .223 carbine or a 12 guage shotgun under my shirt when I carry my .45 with 230gr Hydrashoks!

That is....if you think S&M's study mean anything at all....

Take a look at this thread and think for yourself if their data has any validity whatsoever:
http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/Forum15/HTML/001356.html




[This message has been edited by DerGlockenpooper (edited September 06, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by DerGlockenpooper (edited September 06, 2000).]
 
RWK.....My hat is off to you sir.

For lebenty seven years I have been usin the formula...gr wt of bullet times velocity² in fps OVER 450,240. Seems that the constant is weighted to make it come out. Works when checkin all the published load specs.

Usin the constant 225,120 then 1/2MV² will give the same answer.

Have to use either constant to get the answer to come out in ft-lbs stead of joules or sumpin.

Next project is to determine the time of deceleration in the subject perp, thus calculating horsepower. Or perp power.

Sam....stubborn ol coot.
 
First Marshall rated the 45 230 grain hydra shock at 94% as compared to 96 % for the 357 mag with 125 grain loads. And the 223 rifle is more effecivie than any 45 load. ALso they must have been using the green tip ammo in somalia which is armor piercing with poor stopping power as the regular stuff ball fragments violently and leaves enormous wounds and seldom exits the body.
PAT

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I intend to go into harms way.
 
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