Please rank your top 5 defensive long-guns for beginner

I read the articles, and take some issues with some of the assertions. It's interesting that people have such wide selection.

Here's my opinion.
1. Pump shotgun, 870 or 500 or clone. You can get a reliable used one for around $200-400. 00 or #1 or #4 buckshot or low-recoil buckshot.
2. Semi-auto shotgun such as the Remington 1100. $500. Buckshot.

4-9 shots with a 12 gauge is significant firepower in an average sized home against a garden-variety threat. Given a pie-plate pattern for buckshot at in-home defensive situations, the threat is going to be struck with many shots and significant kinetic energy with each hit. If you've ever seen the wounds from a 12 gauge on a person or deer, you'll be convinced. It's often said that a single full power hit with 00 buck is 9, .33 caliber pellets, or the equivalent of a 9-round SMB 9mm burst. While anecdotal evidences says that people "can" survive this, I believe those survivors would be debilitated at best, and out of the fight due to the shock trauma and damage.

Anyone interested in learning how to combat reload a shotgun should watch this video. A person can learn how to easily add shells to a shotgun using this method while engaged in a fight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7AjaNwtKww

I suspect most people will look over their sights of a handgun, shotgun, and rifle the same at close range, and/or in low light. Both eyes open, point-shooting. In this regard, the difference in peep sight vs. post sight vs. bead sight are irrelevant.

3. AK47. $500+ 30 round mags of .30 caliber ammo. The most prolific combat rifle for a reason. Cheap, easy to use, reliable, and very effective at close ranges. The SKS is a cheaper substitute: $300. 10, 20, 30 round mags of .30 caliber ammo. Simple platform, cheap, reliable and very effective at close range. Mini-30 is another option firing this effective .30 caliber round.

4. AR15. $700+. I've included this because it is an effective weapon and is used by our military. It does offer a bullet that does less penetration than the shotgun and AK47 and even some handguns. It has high capacity and is generally reliable and effective. I think it's more complicated to learn to use than the other weapons mentioned, but YMMV. A substitute might be the Mini-14 in 5.56.

5. Tie: For people in unique situations living in gun-control states, there are good options too: Lever action .357 or .44 magnum or even .30-30 (same ballistics as the 7.62x39). Handgun caliber Kel Tecs and Hipoints. The M1 Carbine is a good choice too, firing a .30 caliber rifle round.

Overall, it's great that we live in a free country and have so many choices available for a person, even a novice, to pick up relative cheap home defense tools, and all are generally simple and effective for someone to learn to use with minimal training. Of course, more training is always better, but for busy soccer moms and career professionals working for a living, and living paycheck to paycheck, setting aside a little money will buy them some serious firepower and home security.

Of course, I believe that training is important. It's also clear that situations and circumstances are important. Someone in an apartment has different considerations than someone on a rural piece of land. Someone with kids in the home has different considerations than a bachelor.

Thank you for your opinions and keep them coming!
 
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All the beginners should take a full sized shotgun and try to hold it up and aimed at a BG or the defended door for 5 minutes. At the same time, manipulate the phone and a light.

There's more to it than the big boom killer kinetic energy mantra.
 
All the beginners should take a full sized shotgun and try to hold it up and aimed at a BG or the defended door for 5 minutes. At the same time, manipulate the phone and a light.

Why would someone do this? Why not take concealment/cover behind a bed/couch or small tactically positioned bookcase or other object if defending a doorway, where you can rest the long gun? It's unadvisable to 'detain' someone in your home, but if so, they should be face down on the floor with their arms and legs spread, palms up. A person could easily position themselves so they could cover the subject while using a phone and holding a long gun, behind a kitchen island perhaps or opposite side of a dining room table. You can turn on a lightswitch with your elbow. Most phones have speakerphone capability. You can pick it up, hit 911 and speaker, and set it down.

Any longgun presents these issues. A handgun maybe easier, but that's not the question presented in the OP.
 
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My vote is for a pistol caliber carbine, preferably an auto loader, that uses the same ammo as his handgun.
And, hopefully, you can explain the importance of training and practice.
That just having a weapon is not a panacea that guarantees safety.
 
1. Sterling Type 2 carbine in 9mm, with 4 - 32 round magazines

2. AK-74 with Russian mil-spec ammo

3. AR-15

4. Remington 870 Law Enforcement in 12 gauge

5. A 12 or 20 gauge "Coach" double barreled shotgun
 
Outside lites with motion detectors
a dog that barks at strangers
a good shotgun and some fire line time with it
a phone
a plan
 
1) SxS .410 or 20 gauge.

2) High capacity tube feed .22 semi auto

3) 9mm semi auto carbine

4) M 1 carbine

5) Semi automatic 20 gauge shotgun
 
Forgive me for suggesting difficulties with a long gun for a beginner as the OP can predict exactly how a critical incident at home will occur.

Getting a touch silly, IMHO.

I suggest a 10 gauge lever action shotgun as you can work it one handed while riding your motorcycle around the living room.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1887

Sometimes someone asks a question at TFL that does have implications and there is a responsibility to point them out, if reasonable.

To argue that it is easy to manipulate a long arm for a beginner, manipulate a pump gun, navigate the house, run an AR or AK - because you see it happening in a way which makes the beginner a winner is not helping people.
 
Tactics, recoil and weight as well as the ability of the user are all concerns when choosing a home defense weapon.

But I still opt for a shotgun for the majority of people and situation.

It is possible to adjust gauge and load to accommodate smaller or weaker users. Opting for a semi instead of a pump is also an option for those not able to work a pump easily.
 
@Glenn who said:

Forgive me for suggesting difficulties with a long gun for a beginner as the OP can predict exactly how a critical incident at home will occur.

Getting a touch silly, IMHO.

I suggest a 10 gauge lever action shotgun as you can work it one handed while riding your motorcycle around the living room.

Nobody, including me, has 'predicted' any certain occurrence. And the only person introducing anything 'silly' is you, which is surprising since you're staff and are now purposefully derailing this conversation. Yeah, got it, pistol may be superior for certain reasons. OP also stated that the person had pistol covered. So, that's NOT the question expressly posed. You introduced an odd question, and when asked, can't explain why someone would be holding a shotgun at a door or on a person for 5 minutes...

Predicting exact scenarios requires non-human abilities. Predicting likely scenarios is quite easy given common design of houses/apartments, furniture, understanding ballistics, and physics...

Stating a person can't cover a door and simultaneously dial 911 or turn on a light is the first silly statement in this thread.
 
Anyone interested in learning how to combat reload a shotgun should watch this video. A person can learn how to easily add shells to a shotgun using this method while engaged in a fight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7AjaNwtKww


From your link: Brian Hoffner has over 30 years of military and law enforcement experience, Brian, a Texas Master Peace Officer, is a senior firearms instructor, and defensive tactics instructor for Houston Police Department. As director of Hoffners Training Academy,...

Why would you expect a newbe to be able to do what a firearms instructor with over thirty years of experience does? Wouldn't it be easier for the newbe to get ten shots off with a semi auto that he doesn't have to reload?


I think it's more complicated to learn to use than the other weapons mentioned, but YMMV. A substitute might be the Mini-14 in 5.56.

How is an AR or Mini-14 more complicated to learn to use than a pump shotgun? It would seem to me that it would be less complex to teach a person to take the safety off a (Mini, AR or other semi auto rifle) then pull the trigger up to thirty times than it would be to take the safety off a pump, pull the trigger, pull the slide back, rack it forward, pull the gun back into your shoulder and pull the trigger again.


This is a thread about hardware for people new to self defense with firearms. Hardware isn't as important as mindset, training or tactics but hardware shouldn't be discounted. One aspect that has been touched on in this thread is what firearm can you get the newbe to shoot enough to gain a basic level of proficiency. A hard recoiling shotgun doesn't seem like the best choice to get most people started shooting.
 
Personally, if I were in a home defense situation and my handgun wasn't on me ( not very much of a chance) I would grab my remington 870 magnum 20 gauge. It is loaded with #3 buck and has 4 rounds in the tube. I would highly recommend this as a #1 choice. 20 gauge is easy on the recoil so not only I but my wife could use it. It only has a 21" barrel so it is also maneuverable within a home. And 20 #3 pellets will stop a man dead, don't be subjective to everyone saying that 00 buck is a home defense round. A pump action is also best fitted for someone new to guns. Load from the bottom, pump, shoot, pump, shoot, repeat. That simple. Shotgun shells are also widely available as well.
Besides the 20gauge pump, the ar15. 30 rounds should be enough even if there is a multiple person home envision. Just my thought.
 
A simple pump 12 gauge. Loaded with manage recoil buck shot or number 4 buck. Some range time. I don't see a problem. I do like rifle sights.
 
Assume you have a non-gun friend who is interested in a long gun (not a handgun) for home defense. Assume they already have a handgun and want a long gun. Standard, garden variety, affordable long gun that this non-gun friend can be easily trained on, and then set aside to be pulled out in an emergency. Considerations are affordability, ease of use, ergonomics, etc. Again, average citizen, probably not willing to invest a few house payments in the platform and ammo and lots of classes...

1-5. 12 or 20 gauge pump action shotgun.
 
A simple pump 12 gauge. Loaded with manage recoil buck shot or number 4 buck. Some range time. I don't see a problem. I do like rifle sights.

But what about your wife or teen age kids? They gonna use that shotgun?

Deaf
 
To argue that it is easy to manipulate a long arm for a beginner, manipulate a pump gun, navigate the house, run an AR or AK - because you see it happening in a way which makes the beginner a winner is not helping people.
It's not exactly helpful to act like everyone is an idiot if they haven't taken the same classes you have.

You may find this hard to believe, but many people can handle firearms quite well without a lot of fancy certificates

Some seem to have the attitude that if you're not SWAT certified, you shouldn't handle a gun at all.
 
Snyper said:
...It's not exactly helpful to act like everyone is an idiot if they haven't taken the same classes you have.

You may find this hard to believe, but many people can handle firearms quite well without a lot of fancy certificates

Some seem to have the attitude that if you're not SWAT certified, you shouldn't handle a gun at all.
On the other hand, I've spent a lot of time over the last 15 years or so helping to introduce absolute beginners to shooting. Several of us, for some years, taught regular beginner classes in wingshooting at our club, and for the for about the last five years I've been with a group putting on monthly NRA Basic Handgun classes. I have the experience of introducing hundreds (perhaps a thousand) of people who have had no prior experience with guns to gun handling and shooting.

And people without some decent gun experience do not handle guns well. Guns are foreign to them, and they are awkward and clumsy with guns. The manipulations and management of guns, to be efficient and safe, requires some experience and instruction.

A lot of seasoned gun folks forget how much they've learned and how much they know compared to then they started.
 
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