Please, Do Not Support Gun Shops That Give Gun Owners A Bad Name

We see this very, very differently.

At the big picture level, since the vast majority of our younger generations are gamers, then if we want the numbers we need to preserve our rights, we need to attract and embrace gamers, too.

That does not mean we should not try to ensure they use firearms in a safe manner at the range, or that we can't help educate them about firearms in the real world. It does mean an open mind is a useful thing. (A generation ago, women's shooting groups were rare, and gay shooting groups were unheard of; appealing to more groups has helped us roll back the antis, since, no?)

At the personal level, I was a gamer back in the days before the internet. D&D, Traveller, you name it, I probably played or refereed it. So did most of my friends. We all became losers, of course... I ended up one of those useless Naval Aviators, and stayed in the basement when not shooting, hitting the dojo, SCUBA diving, skiing, riding motorcycles, sailing... oh, wait, I guess I wasn't a basement dwelling troglodyte.

My gamer friends from high school and college went off to such loser schools as Duke, CalTech, Wake Forest... one or two started up successful small businesses. Another is a professor at South Carolina.

Stereotypes to the contrary, studies have shown that gamers tend to excel at thinking outside the box, adapting to changing technology, and multi-tasking.

So I can see where you would not want any of those guys...
 
James Holmes - "He is said to have had few friends and barely any social life, instead spending hours indoors playing the video game Guitar Hero."

Adam Lanza "According to a new report, the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooter locked himself up in his basement for ‘hours on end’ to play violent video games."

Eric Harris "created a private website on America Online. Harris initially created the site to host gaming levels of the video game Doom, which he and his friend, Dylan Klebold, had created, primarily for friends. On this site, Harris began a blog, which included jokes and short journal entries with thoughts on parents, school, and friends. By the end of the year, the site contained instructions on how to cause mischief, as well as instructions on how to make explosives, and blogs in which he described the trouble he and Klebold were causing."

How far do you want to take this? Maybe you are ok with the face of "The Joker" anodized onto an AR. Or, perhaps we should shut up and not worry about an AK with pictures of dead children painted on the stock? It's just freedom of expression, right? No different than zombies, X-men, or Ninja Turtles on guns, right?

MLeak - you and I do see it differently. I see a connection between video games and violence, in some individuals. I like guns, but they are no joke to me. Turning guns into comic-bookish looking instruments is stupid, childish, and does not help our image any with gun folks and non-gun folks (who can be converted into antis). Sometimes being a "gun snob" and making it known that you look down on gaming-obsessed, zombie-AR-toting jokers is appropriate.
 
I am not a fan of pink firearms, nor of Hello Kitty rifles, yet those have brought new shooters into the fold, so I am hardly going to discontinue doing business with a store because it stocks them. It would be counter-productive.

For every disaffected loner killer you want to name, I could probably find a charismatic Ted Bundy or Charles Manson. You are buying into stereotypes too much.

If I stopped doing business with every store that carries something that I find ridiculous, I would have a very hard time shopping. For instance, I would have to stop going to gun shops that stock various iterations of the Judge... And, stupid though I find them, the Judge variants have attracted a bunch of new shooters.

Again, if Deagle shooting gamerboiz offend you, then take one or two under your wing and educate them. Your current approach is, in my opinion, self-defeating.
 
And I reiterate, childish and tacky zombie stuff will get some antis to look down their noses at us and laugh. So what?
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Antis are already against us regardless of they image we portray. Its the damage that a negative image does to those that are presently neutral to our cause that is the concern. Any thing that makes gun owners in general look irresponsible and foolish is not helping our cause.

You are buying into stereotypes too much.
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But that's what folks do. Antis stereotype ARs as weapons of mass destruction. Many pro-gun folks stereotype antis as idiots. Some folks think all gamers are losers. While all can be correct, none are correct all the time, but folks still think that way. Adding fuel to a negative stereotype does nuttin' to help our image if we want to portray ourselves as responsible gun owners. Only way to defeat a negative image is to always display a positive one. While it may not change the minds of zealots, it may draw someone still undecided to our side. Those that are fairly neutral to guns are in the Majority. They are the ones that get swayed by Media blitzes after mass shootings. Not the hard core antis or pro gun folks. They are the folks that may or may not take away our guns in the future.
 
And I will reiterate: zombies and vampires are the current rage among the teen through 30 set. (Heard of Twilight? Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter? ZombieLand?).

As far as the game aspect, note the outrage Wayne LaPierre created when he suggested that video games should be blamed for violent behavior, and regulated. Some of those who were very vocally upset over this were younger TFL members, at least a couple of whom are now anti-NRA.

If you want to win over undecideds, then acting in a judgemental manner toward their chosen entertainment forms seems an odd way to go about it.
 
I have a xBox but am not a gamer by any means, and I was sort of put of by LaPierre's demonization of violent shoot 'em ups, but the more I read of that coward and the half full mags dumped all over the school, the more I think he has a point.


Then again, banning violent video games would be the same slippery anti-Constitutional step as banning semi-automatic rifles.
 
I am not a fan of the GTA games and their like, nor the Saw genre of movies, and I think LaPierre had a point. However, I also agree with you about the slippery slope argument.

Not to mention that studies have not shown positive correlation between violent video games and violent behavior, in much the same way that studies have not shown a correlation between adult entertainment and sexual assault.
 
MLeake said:
Not to mention that studies have not shown positive correlation between violent video games and violent behavior, in much the same way that studies have not shown a correlation between adult entertainment and sexual assault.
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True. And Glenn has weighed in with very good evidence about how violent video games aren't to blame as well, however, what gets me is that dumping half full mags is something "gamers" do, often in thier games. The game mechanics are such that half full mags get magically refilled from your aviable ammo stash and allow you to do "tacitcal reloads" without wasting ammo. That was just very striking to me for some reason.

That being said, and to veer back to topic, I think the gamer segment of America and the gun owning segment could learn alot from this and try to spread the word about how we aren't all mass killers.

And part of that would be buy avoiding gun shops, like the OP described.

My LGS* is run by an old Southern gentleman and his family. With the exceptiong of his wife, who is a bit ornery to everybody, and the pretty granddaughters who work the registers*, he is as friendly and kind to me and Pop, who have shopped there for a combined fifty odd years as to a first time customer regardless of race. That is the image we need to project.

* He also stocks the Zombie Hunter stuff. Interestingly enough, I saw him recommend it to somebody eafter the panic buying because he was out of .223 hunting ammo.

*That may just be because they didn't like my akward middle school boy attempts at flirting.
 
Son of Sam- "I'm a born again Christian"
Charles Manson was known to frequently quote the Bible.
Jim Jones, a Reverend.

Since some nutjobs abused the Bible, I should be prejudiced against someone ready and willing to accept Christ? That's what I hear when you say gamers should stay away from guns, just because some nutjob killers were gamers.

Maybe you are ok with the face of "The Joker" anodized onto an AR. Or, perhaps we should shut up and not worry about an AK with pictures of dead children painted on the stock? It's just freedom of expression, right? No different than zombies, X-men, or Ninja Turtles on guns, right?

Yes, yes, yes and correct. It's definitely not my taste, but I'm not going to get my britches bunched over whatever's etched into a rifle stock.

I have Goya's "Saturn Devouring His Son" in my office- a ghastly depiction of a vicious and violent event.
I like gory horror & zombie flicks.
I played the hell out of some Mortal Kombat as a kid.
But even though I'm a teacher, a father, borderline pacifist, a safety nut, and devout Christian, maybe I should stay on my couch and avoid guns, for my love of violent art & games.

I only look down on gun owners who refuse to learn to handle them safely.
 
In the case of zombie gear, we might just need to open a can of "Lighten up, Francis."
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I've heard the same argument made in defense of racist or sexist jokes.
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Zombie items are not in the same plane as being racist/sexist. We all know that the whole Zombie thing is fiction and is mostly for fun and marketing.

Racism and sexism are serious. No comparison there really. If you don't like the Zombie stuff, don't buy them and don't watch any of it on tv/movies.

IMO whatever stimulates the gun culture and draws more people into the shooting sports is ok in my book. If you're not into it, then that is your choice.
 
The bottom line is that I'm prejudiced against gamers who get into firearms just because of their video gaming.
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Oh, c'mon. How many of us obsessed over guns we saw in old westerns, or on Miami Vice back in the day? :)

It's the same thing, really. Some of the Call of Duty kids are silly, but if just a few get into the sport from that angle, I'm OK with it.

As for video games and violence, there's never been a causal relationship established. Glenn can go into the details, but while they may be a stressor for unstable individuals, they're not enough on their own. Heck, you should see some of the awful things I've done in Skyrim.

Zombie ammo? Hey, it sells. Free market at work. I'd draw the line at political figures (and I have seen shops sell those targets), but the fantastical stuff is in good fun.

(Traveller? Meh. The cool kids played Star Frontiers.)
 
Ok, let's take the Miami vice era - what if an AR has pictures of Scarface or Hanibal Lector etched in color on them? John Wayne Gacey - you're ok with that too - just a picture, right? No one is suggesting that rifles with stupid pictures on them be outlawed - all some of us are saying is that we have no problem expressing a bit of snobbery toward them and those that sell them.
 
luckily i've never encountered the type of rude behavior the OP talked about. gun shops should be about guns, not religion, politics or inappropriate language. this is a sure way to lose my business. i've had plenty of gun shop owners ignore me but not engage in foul language
 
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