Pizza Hut SD Shooting

[madmag]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/09/29/1725949/2-arrested-in-january-slaying.html

just came on this other story while trying to get updates on my original story. I think this relates to my original story. It is a similar story from our part of the country and I think it is a a lesson in what can happen when you don't have means to protect yourself.

RALEIGH Two Raleigh men were arrested late Tuesday night in the January murder of an assistant manager at a Knightdale Domino's Pizza store, the first murder in the town's 82-year history.

And today, a third suspect was arrested in Wilmington. All three have been charged with first-degree murder.

One of the men, Nicho D'Angelo Bowers, 20, was the pizza delivery driver police said discovered Kenny Ring beaten and lying on the floor of the store just after midnight on Jan. 9.

 

[markj]

do you have any fault with how this guy defended himself? Should he have pulled sooner rather than later?

Wasnt there so I cant say if, he lived tho and the bgs died well 2 of them.

He showed a lot of restraint, maybe due to his level of training?

 

[madmag]

He showed a lot of restraint, maybe due to his level of training?

Yes, I have not figured it out...maybe I don't need to. I think there is a chance the BG's were so close he did not have an opportunity to pull is pistol.

Anyway, my view is stores like Pizza Hut should reverse their policy. They should actually train employees (that want to participate) in firearms handling. Even help them get CCW license. I bet the robbery rate would go down...not up.

Added: In light of this story, I am pleased that no stores in our area...not one that I know of.....has any handgun restrictions for patrons. This includes all of the major retail stores and restaurants.

 

[Glenn Dee]

Anyone know if they ever fired the guy?... I also wont use Pizza Hut again if they did.

 

[Mr Dish]

I have seen an alarming lack of news reporting in a certain Michigan city lately. The local News Company reports at least 1 murder in either Flint or Saginaw everyday. However, I recently met a guy who has a brother in the Saginaw County Sheriffs Dept. And he informed me that there are at least 3-5 murders each day in Saginaw alone. We all know you can't rely on the media for reliable information.....but come on. I guess they are simply trying to keep a lid on the true violence so the good folks don't all abandon ship at once.

 

[Nnobby45]

So, do you have any fault with how this guy defended himself? Should he have pulled sooner rather than later?

No!! What do you think this is---the Huffington Post or Gun Banners of America?

Why would a reasonable person, including those who frequent gun forums, have a problem with using deadly force against a drawn gun being used to commit felony assault that could cause injury or death---from the beating, before factoring in the possibility (or likelyhood) of being shot?

Yes, our hindsight would probably agree that he should have acted sooner. The results to the violent criminals would have been the same without the injury to the good guy.

It's too bad that ... Congress ... , who've just decided to recess without doing their jobs, don't consider a mandatory ten year prison sentence for anyone luring another to a place for the purpose of robbery...

OK, rant done, and yes, thanks for asking, I do feel better.

 

[R1145]

I think the pizza guy showed admirable restraint. A reasonable person only uses deadly force as a last resort.

Regardless of the fact that it is legally justified, pizza guy will probably lose his job, incur legal costs and have to live in fear of reprisals to himself and his family. Hopefully, he comes out of this OK.

He is alive, however, and very reasonably could have been killed that night.

He probably would have been legally justified to use lethal force earlier in the incident. Pizza guy is probably a brave man.

 

[BfloBill]

There must have been something in the perps demeanor/actions that made the worker feel that they would eventually go away without serious harm or he probably would have acted sooner. What would be nice to know (but we never will) is what the perps did or said to make him change his assessment of the situation.

 

[WARRIOR I]

When this story was reported in Columbia, the usual phrase was applied about
halfway through the article, ie- "...police have not said whether any charges
would be brought against the employee...etc." This seems to be a standard
reporting technique, indicative of the extreme leftist position taken by most
media outlets.

Charges ? For someone who deserves the highest civic award available ?

 

[madmag]

Charges ? For someone who deserves the highest civic award available ?

Never know what will happen, but the Charlotte NC and SC area have been very good about these kinds of SD shootings. One happened in the area about a year ago that even shocked me. The older guy chased the BG's from his home after they invaded and tied up his family. He ended up out on the city street and then shot one of the BG's he thought had a gun. No charges were filed.

I think the Pizza Hut delivery guy will be OK.

 

[Manco]

There must have been something in the perps demeanor/actions that made the worker feel that they would eventually go away without serious harm or he probably would have acted sooner.

Either that or he was being held at gunpoint and probably would have been shot had he drawn his own weapon.

What would be nice to know (but we never will) is what the perps did or said to make him change his assessment of the situation.

Didn't one of the articles say that one of the perps almost discovered that the deliveryman was armed with a gun? That's a pretty good reason to draw and fire, like RIGHT NOW!

 

[therealdeal]

please keep us posted on the outcome. In my personal opinion the worker will not lose his job or face any kind of negative legal consequences from this situation. There have been several, recent murders/robberies concerning pizza delivery men of late. That being said, my guess is a good or bad as anyone's, so we'll have to just wait and see.

 

[madmag]

please keep us posted on the outcome.

I will. I live in the area and check the news daily.

 

[Nnobby45]

What would be nice to know (but we never will) is what the perps did or said to make him change his assessment of the situation.

Well, not exactly.


He said he opened fire when, during the pistol whipping, they were trying to lift up his shirt---which would have exposed his gun. He knew that he likely would have been shot as soon as they saw it in his hand concealed under his shirt.

 

[sliponby]

Contact Pizza Hut CS

Want to know how to get a message to Pizza Hut concerning this incident? Go to their website and send a message stating your thoughts on this matter and your reaction, should they fire or reprimand the employee for defending his life.

I'm not a big fan of take out pizza but I shot them an email stating my thoughts. Personally I prefer Dominos, IMHO...

 

[kaylorinhi]

feedback sent

That was a pain going through all the steps but worth it. I made sure I stated that I was glad they were continuing to support our rights and that character traits shown by nameless delivery man good and right. I also left all my contact(mandatory:barf info so we will see if they respond.

 

[Slamfire]

I expect hellfire should Pizza Hut fire this guy. Especially after he showed restraint that very very few people have. I am failing to understand how one beaten and permanently scarred innocent employee and a successful robbery is a better policy than 2 dead robbers/convicted felons and an unsuccessful robbery.

Because you do not understand what motivates Corporations: Corporations are there to “Maximize Profits”

If a corporation encourages employees to resist, to carry guns, and the employee hurts a Goblin, the corporation is subject to a lawsuit. Court costs are not cheap and the settlement could be huge.

Whereas if the Corporation teaches its employees to be passive, to non resist, and this behavior allows a Goblin to kill an employee, its a law enforcement issue. Government assumes the cost.

Dead employees are cheaper than dead Goblins.

It is all about profits.

 

[Mr. James]

Dead employees are cheaper than dead Goblins.

That, pathetically, is the simple truth. Corporations are amoral critters. "Maximize profits," and "minimize litigation risks." All of which translates to "Dead employees are cheaper than dead Goblins."

 

[Nnobby45]

Lawyers advise companies on such matters--or maybe write the policy themselves. As stated, companies are less concerned about your welfare than their own liability.

It's easier to settle with the family of an injured or dead employee than to deal with lawsuits filed by Bubba's family.

That doesn't mean that disciplinary action has to include firing. Being required to donate $20 toward the company picnic should be enough.

 

[WANT A LCR 22LR]

From what I recall, many Pizza Huts are privately owned so slamming a local store won't do much good.

As for companies being "evil" and more interested in the bottom line, who here has money in a 401K or other retirement plan? The money your account makes primarily comes from company stocks.

The Pizza hut is in somewhat of a bind. If they soften the rule for one guy they are endorsing others to ignore the law as well. If they get rid of him some will push the issue if he was not carrying he'd likely be dead. If carry is made OK, you can pretty much figure a customer will be accidentally shot at some point then the store sued. I'm betting a actuary ran the numbers and came up with a shot customer costing more. ( A actuary has been described as a accountant that does not have a personality )

I'd say put the person that made the no carry rule in the same cooler with the knowledge that the next person coming in will be beating them with a gun and see what the rule maker does. ( BTW, also tell the rule maker that they must sign away all possibility of the attacker going to jail for their injuries / murder. )