Dragline45
New member
I never gave it much thought, but I would fall under the Compressed ready position. From this position I can get my gun on target quicker than the others.
Anyone who thinks the Sul position is bizarre or unnatural obviously hasn't practiced with it using the proper technique. I've used Sul since 1998 when I learned it from a Marine buddy. It's an extremely natural technique once you learn that all you're doing is rotating your support hand up close to your chest; your support hand is flat against your body yet it's still in a position to immediately grasp the gun in a two-handed grip.RX-79G said:bizarre Sul position
When tested against all the other positions, SUL is the slowest.I like the Sul position because it safely brings the gun very close to your body for good retention, yet it's a very natural hold that allows you to bring the gun into action very quickly.
Spaulding’s Position vs. Speed Test
Position Time (3 shots) Avg.
Guard / Low Ready .61 .57 .52 .57
Chest Ready .66 .66 .63 .65
Compressed Low Ready .65 .59 .61 .62
High Ready .64 .62 .61 .62
Sul .88 .84 .82 .85
Good catch, Snyper. I went to the link and had never seen that article. It seems that Sul is slower than other ready positions, by some 0.22 of a second. However, the author makes a good point in the concluding paragraph.Snyper said:When tested against all the other positions, SUL is the slowest.
I don't consider Sul a ready position. Never have. It's just another tool in the bag to help me get through the day. I don't think I'd use it in competition, but in the real world it works fine.Considering that a blink of an eye is measured at approximately .32 seconds, the difference between these positions is minimal. However, there’s no way to know what will be “too slow” in a fight.
That can be said for most of the other wizz bang stuff thats now, or ever was, once all the rage, dont you think? You can also follow that thought back to the caveman for anything if you think about it.I also think if it was truly "natural" someone would have been using it before 1997.
OF COURSE it's slower, it's not a true ready position. I think you're completely missing the point here; the Sul position allows you to carry the firearm in a safe manner that allows for maximum retention, while still being very quick to bring into action if needed. But the Sul position is not designed to replace those other ready positions, it's simply another tool to use.Snyper said:When tested against all the other positions, SUL is the slowest.
That's kind of a ridiculous statement. I find the thumbs-forward grip very natural ever since I learned it and started practicing it. That doesn't mean it's so natural that I should have invented it on my own.Snyper said:I also think if it was truly "natural" someone would have been using it before 1997.
Regarding the idea that if SUL was such a great idea, why was it not invented prior to 1997
1) As a non-leo, purely civilian, CCW-er, I am unlikely to ever have to move among a tight crowd of people with a drawn pistol. A police officer is much more likely to need that skill than me.
Good point, Peet!Brian Pfleuger said:I would assume just the opposite. Most times, by the time the LE get there, all the action is over. It's the civilian in the movie theater, church, shopping mall, etc. that may need to move among a crowd with a drawn gun.1) As a non-leo, purely civilian, CCW-er, I am unlikely to ever have to move among a tight crowd of people with a drawn pistol. A police officer is much more likely to need that skill than me.
OF COURSE it's slower, it's not a true ready position. I think you're completely missing the point here; the Sul position allows you to carry the firearm in a safe manner that allows for maximum retention, while still being very quick to bring into action if needed. But the Sul position is not designed to replace those other ready positions, it's simply another tool to use.
Just out of curiosity, for those who dont use/approve of the SUL position, when the need arises, how do you move safely (and discretely) amongst people, or in tight spaces, and without telegraphing your gun, but having it instantly ready?
Can you move 360*, without, or I should say, with a greatly reduced chance of sweeping someone?
Except that pointing the muzzle up opens a whole 'nuther set of problems.Snyper said:By pointing the muzzle UP, you can move safely in all directions
The latest gimmick was named in 1997? Dude, we've got to come up with newer stuff. I've been accused of lots of things, but "tacticool" isn't one of them.It's just the latest "tacticool" gimmick that says "Look at me"
Heh! Yeah, I use both thumbs forward and thumbs down, depending on how I feel. Can't really see a benefit one way or the other.AK103K said:Wow! Lots of dug in toe nails against change around here. Good thing no one brought up the thumbs forward grip!
Do we wait for the "range is hot" call too?By pointing the muzzle UP, you can move safely in all directions, and never point it at your own feet
If I have a gun out ready to use, "discrete" doesn't come into play.
Odds of "the need arrising" are similar to being struck by lightning
I saw the light and made it to the other side.Heh! Yeah, I use both thumbs forward and thumbs down, depending on how I feel. Can't really see a benefit one way or the other.
Interesting. I tend toward Neutral Ready as a default, and move to Sul when moving or in more crowded areas. That said, recently, most of my practice has been square ranges where there is a definite safe direction to my front.I look at SUL as the "base" that all others either start from, and/or eventually return to. As PawPaw said, it is just another tool in the bag, but for those of us who find it very versatile, it tends to be the main tool, that can easily and quickly turn into any of the others as needed, yet offers more than they do in the end.
'If your pointing up and happen to trip or fall, where is that barrel going to point?
On the other hand, you have, by your own admission, no training in SUL and of course no experience with it.Snyper said:...I keep hearing all that rhetoric repeated, but I stll see a gun gripped by just three fingers, pointed at your own toes, or someone elses if in a crowd, that's proven to be slower than other methods
It's just the latest "tacticool" gimmick that says "Look at me"...
A major problem with the muzzle up is that the gun and you hands will be somewhere in your field of vision partially blocking your view.Snyper said:...By pointing the muzzle UP, you can move safely in all directions...
A major problem with the muzzle up is that the gun and you hands will be somewhere in your field of vision partially blocking your view.
On the other hand, you have, by your own admission, no training in SUL and of course no experience with it.
Do you have complaints about specific positions or think your way is better than these? (If so, please inform us.)
But if you hold the gun low enough to be out of your fields of vision, you would then be pointing the gun at or near your head. Plus, it's a very awkward hand position.Snyper said:Code:A major problem with the muzzle up is that the gun and you hands will be somewhere in your field of vision partially blocking your view.
Only if you raise your hands too high.
Common sense would say not to do that...
You may certainly have an opinion, but not all opinions are equal. We have now established what your opinion is based on and therefore have a better idea of how much attention your opinion warrants.Snyper said:On the other hand, you have, by your own admission, no training in SUL and of course no experience with it.
It takes no "training" to see and read the facts.
Is no one allowed to have an opinion (which is what the OP requested) unless they "took a class"?
The OP asked the question
I merely answered it, and showed facts to support what I stated....