Pistol permits

Not everything is about the constitution,

The hell it isn't. ITS EVERYTHING ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION

When I was sworn in as an Officer in the U.S. Army, I swore an oath to the "CONSTITUTION" not to the president, not to the congress, not to the USSC, not to my commanders above me, not to the enlisted below me, but TO THE CONSTITUTION.

With out it this country is nothing.

As too whether our founders met M16 and such I can't say, neither could they, but they thought something would come up in the future that needed addressed so they added a means to amend the Constitution.

If you don't like M-16s (or what ever) and you want to exclude them from the 2nd Amendment, fine. Amend the Constitution. Once its amended I will support it whether I like it or not I'll support it. My Oath to the Constitution did not expire.

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)
 
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As a NJ resident with nearly a dozen guns, half of them handguns, it really burns my balls that I have to ask permission from the government or any of its agencies before I buy or sell handguns. It's a ridiculous system that has done nothing to reduce crime in NJ... the only thing it has done is create mountains of paperwork for prospective gun owners and the LEOs who have to process their applications. And, of course, a bit of income from fees to feed the bureaucratic monstrosity in Trenton.

This is a very anti-gun state. There are municipalities where it is effectively impossible to obtain the necessary ID and permits because the Chief of Police simply refuses to issue them. Even in the gun-friendly (relatively speaking) places, the requirements are obscene- you have to provide character witnesses as though you were on trial for a crime, your permit application may be denied if you're currently unemployed. When you apply for your Firearms Purchaser ID, you have to be interrogated by a detective before they'll sign anything off, get fingerprinted and put in the system...

Bad guys don't have the patience for paperwork, and they sure as hell aren't going to ask the police very nicely before they buy and carry their weapons. No offense, pgdion, but I'm glad as hell that you don't hold public office.

I don't know what part of NJ you live in, but they don't "interrogate" anyone for an ID card. You fill out paper work, get finger printed, give them a certified check and wait patiently. Now if you're trying to get a concealed carry license all hell breaks loose.

For additional licenses you fill out one form, mark how many you want and pay $2 per permit. You do not need to put references down again.

You also cannot be denied for being unemployed. If they do send a letter to the state police and make a "controlled" ruckus with the mayor.
 
kraigwy said:
pgdion said:
Not everything is about the constitution,
The hell it isn't. ITS EVERYTHING ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION

When I was sworn in as an Officer in the U.S. Army, I swore an oath to the "CONSTITUTION" not to the president, not to the congress, not to the USSC, not to my commanders above me, not to the enlisted below me, but TO THE CONSTITUTION.

With out it this country is nothing.
Thank you, Kraig.

I wasn't an officer, I was enlisted. When I was inducted into the U.S. Army over 50 years ago I, too, swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. Not the country, not the flag ... the Constitution. The Constitution IS the highest law of the land. If you do not understand that, I do not understand why or how you are living in this country. The educational system where you grew up clearly failed miserably in teaching fundamental high school Civics (or "Social Studies," as it was called when I was in high school).
 
pgdion

As far as the second amendment, where does it say criminals shouldn’t own guns? Are you suggesting felons should be able to buy guns because the second amendment does not state they shouldn’t??? c’mon, get real here. Not everything is about the constitution, you have to apply some rational thinking too.

There is a Constitutional argument that convicted felons who have fulfilled their sentence and been released from prison as a free man/woman should be able to possess firearms as any other free man.

Do not all free men have the right to self-defense?
Do they not need the tools with which to provide themselves with self-defense?

Imagine a convicted felon who after serving his sentence is released and has to make his way in society. He has to find gainful employment with a criminal record. He is like to struggle to make money to live on. He is likely to have to settle in a low rent place to live with the attendant high crime that is there. If he is to survive does he not need a means of self-defense more than most? If we as a society deny him the tools to survive, then how can we expect him to support that society that seeks his death?

The Gun Control Act of 1968 makes it illegal for any person convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a year or more “to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition.” 18 U.S.C. Sec. 922(g)(1).
The U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia wrote in the 2003 case of Black v. Snow (272 F. Supp. 2d 21), this does not mean that a convicted felon “is forever barred from possessing firearms.” Id at 24.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit provided a test for determining whether a person convicted of a federal crime predicated on a state offense has had their rights restored in U.S. v. Dupaquier, 74 F.3d 615 (1996). In that case, a man who had been convicted under various drug-related state offenses was later arrested and charged with being a convicted felon in possession of a firearm. The defendant argued that since more than 10 years had elapsed since his last conviction, his civil rights had been restored and thus, under federal law, he was no longer considered a convicted felon. The court ultimately agreed with the defendant’s position, ....

What seems to be the real concern of many people is that there are so many violent felons out on parole (as distinguished from those ho have completed their sentence) who are not free and are still a danger to society.

So actually it is all about the U.S. Constitution. The U.S.A. is a nation of laws not men.
 
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Here's what it says:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. However, crazy anti-gun states shall infringe at their leisure, including excessive regulation, unnecessary permits, magazine limits, State-managed lists of gun owners, purchase limits, and the like.
 
I think the permit to purchase a handgun is a good idea. It's an extra layer of scrutiny and in MN it has kept handguns away from some who shouldn't have them but would have passed through the federal background check. It also forces you to meet your local police to get the permit, something many unstable individuals simply won't do. It also stops that impulse rage purchase.

Missouri got rid of this stupid law a couple years ago...With no ill effects I might add.

In MN it's a permit to purchase handguns, not a permit for a gun.

The state that gave us Senator Al Franken. Figures!!!
 
I... can... not... even begin to comprehend how anyone can think that purchase permits or any of that crap is even remotely constitutional or necessary.

How about this:

The Constitution never mentions permission slips, permits or background checks. GET RID OF THEM!

I believe that when a felon gets out of prison, he shouldn't be barred from owning guns. If they're so worried that he's so dangerous that he can't own guns, KEEP HIM IN PRISON! For God's sake how f**king hard would that be?! Let the bastard rot if he's such a horrible danger to society!

I'm gonna go throw up now, after seeing that any gun owner could even consider purchase permits a good thing... What the hell is this once great nation coming to? It's an absolute spit in the face of the Constitution and the oath I took to uphold and defend it!

That anyone could think permits and the like do anything good... :barf:
 
Legal resources; guides; NRA...

These legal & permit issues come up often.
Check these sources; www.Gunlawguide.com www.NRA.org www.Handgunlaw.us .

The Travel Guide to US Firearms laws is useful. The 2011 ed could help.
Atty David Wong also has a detailed law/gun/knife legal handbook.

ClydeFrog
ps; If you haven't already, join the NRA. They fight hard to protect your 2A & gun ownership rights all across the USA.
 
Mommy, mommy, can I have it? mommy, mommy, please please,, mommy mommy, can I have it? Ba Humbug!

When will NJ grow up and elect responsible legislators that don't have the personal internal need to act like they have to be mommy to adult citizens?

Kind of reminds you of Charles Darwin's attitude toward blacks..yes, they are our brothers,,,younger brothers...

To all my friends of color, yep, that is where that attitude came from.
 
Worse in Hawaii...you must get a "permit to acquire" for each specific handgun, and wait two weeks for it to get processed. At least I could get as many as I could afford in a month!!...except the cost of living is very high :/
 
irishhardass said:
I... can... not... even begin to comprehend how anyone can think that purchase permits or any of that crap is even remotely constitutional or necessary.

How about this:

The Constitution never mentions permission slips, permits or background checks. GET RID OF THEM!
When ratified, did the Second Amendment pertain to the federal government or to the States also? When was the Second Amendment fully incorporated to the States?
 
Worse in Hawaii...you must get a "permit to acquire"

As I understand it, in Illinois you have to get what they call a "FOID" card from the government before you can even handle a firearm (say at a gun show) that isn't yours. As hard as it is to believe this requirement could be possible in America, the Second Amendment apparently be damned, and though I have no first-hand experience with the law (thankfully), the issue was discussed at length in a thread at THR (starting on 2-6-11) in the General Gun Discussion forum.
 
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What seems to be the real concern of many people is that there are so many violent felons out on parole (as distinguished from those ho have completed their sentence) who are not free and are still a danger to society.

Given the known steep recidivism rate of felons who have completed their parole/probation sentences, just because they become "free" doesn't mean that they are no longer a danger to society. Spots are hard for a leopard to remove, no matter how hard he scrubs them.
 
When was the Second Amendment fully incorporated to the States?

With the radification of the 14th Amendment, comfirmed by the recient USSC ruling.

When one studies a law, he must read the writings of the authors to get their feelings at the time. Post Civil War, some states attempted prohibit reciently freed slaves taking advantage of the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution. One of which was preventing the freed slaves from owning firearms.
 
At this rate, they'll probably start requiring permits to ATTEND gun shows, or walk in to gun stores, or privately sell firearms, for that matter. Heck, if you even start thinking about BUYING a gun or ammo, or anything else "gun-related", then you'll have to have a permit to do so!
 
Pistol permit minimum age in alabama is 18...:)...its up to the sherrif if u can get one...still 21 to buy it or the ammo...but I can carry as many as I like..not just one..its un restricted ...on my person in my truck..as long as its concealed
 
There is no answer to your question. The issuing of permits is so screwed up in this state that it reallly depends of your local angecy. I live in Ridgewood, NJ and our PD is really good (1 week for pistol permites, and 2 for a Purchase Card). I would just wait for the card before getting another pistol permit. Remember that you can't buy 2 at a time anyways since there is a one handgun per 30 days law here. So get your first permit and then apply for the second.
 
dgludwig said:
Given the known steep recidivism rate of felons who have completed their parole/probation sentences, just because they become "free" doesn't mean that they are no longer a danger to society. Spots are hard for a leopard to remove, no matter how hard he scrubs them.
Conversely, there are innumerable "white collar" crimes and non-violent offenses such as check forgery that are felonies, conviction for which will bar an offender from firearms use or ownership for life even if they've never committed anything more violent than swapping a mosquito.

Given the known steep recidivism rate of felons who have completed their parole/probation sentences, it would appear that the sentences for violant crimes simply are not sufficiently long, and/or that prisons are not doing their jobs.
 
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