Pistol Grip Shotguns

I've shot a lot of shotguns over the past 40 years, and while I certainly prefer a full stock, PGO shotguns are just not that difficult to shoot. And shoot well if you take some time to practice. Now when I say shoot well, I'm talking about at defensive distances, of course. That's what they are designed for, after all.

Check the breacher's grip video on the attached link:

http://www.knoxx.com/action_videos/Knoxx_Videos.php

The little guy seems to be a bit of a wuss, though. The 'lil 'ol girl could probably wrestle him down :).
 
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I do, repeat, do, have issues with those who claim to be Death Walking with a shotgun sans any stock.
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I don't recall anyone claiming to be Death Walking, but my God, man - at 10 feet you can practically reach out and put the muzzle in the belly button.

Just because you can't perform, doesn't mean it can't be performed. I have issues with those who claim others can't do something because THEY can't do it.

I have witnessed some remarkable shooting with handguns that didn't involve the standard two-hand grip and the use of sights. I couldn't have come any where near to duplicating it, but I wouldn't deny what I saw just because of my lack of that particular skill.

In the end, it matters not whether I agree with you or you agree with me. It makes for interesting conversation, but that is the extent of it.
 
I don't have issues with people who claim they can hit fast and accurate with a PGO shotgun, it just seemed like *they* never showed up at my league. The guys who missed poppers at 25 feet under the timer sure did though...

Shot per shot, training hour per training hour, the stock is an advantage.
 
"Shot per shot, training hour per training hour, the stock is an advantage."

I don't imagine anyone would argue that point.
 
while i'll agree a stock adds accuracey, for home defense i don't see any problem with having a pistol grip on your shotgun. i personally use a pg on my shotgun for home defense. i regularly pratice with it and for cqb consider it a formitable option. would i use it for deer season? no, but that's not what it's made for. one thing my 1sgt did when we were in kuwait waiting for the invasion of iraq was to cut the stocks on all our companys shotguns and "shorten" the barrels. it worked for us then and i still swear by it for cqb purposes now.
 
I've shot a lot of shotguns over the past 40 years, and while I certainly prefer a full stock, PGO shotguns are just not that difficult to shoot. And shoot well if you take some time to practice. Now when I say shoot well, I'm talking about at defensive distances, of course. That's what they are designed for, after all.
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TxGun, destiny has called upon us - we just need to open a pg shotgun self-defense shooting school. It is obvious that there is both a need and a demand. Of course we will have to decline wanna-be deer hunters, trick shooters, skeet shooters, and long-range sniper candidates!

"I don't need to kill everybody, Tom - just my enemies." - (The Godfather)

(I ain't even gonna discuss my grandfather's quail hunting with a .22 rifle because he thought it ultimate stupidity to waste expensive shotgun ammo when a cheap .22 would do the job. And, yes, he did allow them to take flight before knocking them down. He was like most of his generation which pretty much went by the concept that you didn't go to hunt game - you went to kill game, because having hungry children was just not acceptable.)
 
I guess those secret service witness protection agents who use pistol gripped shotguns just didn't know any better.
 
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346396
As a person who has owned and operated shotguns since I was 8 on a VERY regular basis I feel I have a bit of quantified experience that allows me to speak on this subject.
I have used PGO, AR style PG stock, and factory style stocks. I have never fired a "gentleman's" grade of gun in my life so an elitist I am not! I have fired sawed off .410 with 7 inch barrel extensively on up to 28 inch field guns. Far more than 99% of my intended targets had blood coursing thru their veins. I have had varying degrees of success with each gun. I have also self trained in both the domicile and outdoor environs.
The PGO is a fun gun! But no one can ever say it is equal or superior to a stocked weapon. The AR style has limitations. The regular stock has NO LIMITATIONS in any type of use. The only limitation in the use of a regular stock is with the shooter.
In my offer I linked to I am serious about taking a week of my time to share extensively with any one serious about learning skills they may have only begun to work with. Not everyone has the locale to allow repeated heavy shooting to impart habitual skill. In this offer you are not only invited to shoot whatever you bring (shotgun wise) but you will also get to fire my guns all you want as well. One thing this will do is make you more dependent on your own discipline and not the gun. Also you will be able to compare a 28 inch, 18 inch of mine to what ever of yours. I will hold all results in confidence and if you choose to post about it I will opine at that time. Records of hit miss ratio etc. can be kept. You can switch your gun around day to day as well. This isn't just a shell wasting opportunity. Tactical practice as well as some FoF for you as well. Multiple attacker scenario as well as Junior would love to participate. we will also sling a few cases of clays for you... Not those preset trap and skeet type either... Hand slinger at various heights and angles... mostly lower and slower than those sport machines can handle. I have done these tasks with PGO and assure you no amount of skill with it will account for as many hits as you would get with a stock even if you never used a stocked shotgun in your life... PROMISE!
Funny thing about my offer that is serious and intended to help guys mostly new to HD/SD shotgunning is that the guys who have shown interest are mostly already as well trained if not more at one discipline or other than me...
Man I would have belly crawled 100 miles on broken glass in my younger days to take up an offer like this... It took me 30 years to self train (a few guys had some input in how I should train) what I would like to share in a week or so....
Brent
 
"But no one can ever say it is equal or superior to a stocked weapon."

I agree. Again, I don't think anyone would argue that point.
 
"But no one can ever say it is equal or superior to a stocked weapon."

I agree. Again, I don't think anyone would argue that point.

All I'm saying is that one can learn to shoot a PGO gun effectively at conflict distances and that they have their place in certain circumstances where compactness or concealibility are desired...a travel gun might be one example. They are not that hard to shoot accurately at SD/HD range and the recoil is certainly not something overwhelming. Look, I have an even dozen short barrelled shotguns at this moment (bird guns are another story :)). Only 1 of those is a PGO gun. Does that tell everyone something??? Do you think I prefer a PGO gun over a full-stocked gun??? Haven't I said at least twice in this thread that I do not??? Jeez, this stuff ain't that hard to understand.
 
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Nobody is saying that a pistol gripped shotgun is superior for all uses, or that it rocks for skeet shooting.
All I am saying, is that if you kick through my door at zero dark thirty, I will put a load of 00 buck in your chest.
 
I understand they can be a good "coach gun"... Heck during "snake season" I have been known to carry my 20 on the dash with PGO to blast diamond backs in areas where we run hog dogs. But that is at point blank range with a field load. The same gun rides fine on the dash with a full stock.
The only advantage (remember I have owned and operated the 3 named stock types extensively) is that a PGO can be carried with a sigle PG mounted swivel under my arm with sling over my shoulder while I also run dogs on leads... What for? I dunno, maybe to shoot a dillar (make ankle twisting holes) or a rabbit (treat for the dogs) or a squirrel for the snake....
If hip shooting is your desire a regular stock works great but an AR style suffers. If HD is your need than the regular stock is superior as you have the most available holds and mounts but the AR style and pistol grip both suffer. for true SD, the risk of hand to hand combat should be factored in and only the PGO suffers in this situation. The PGO really isn't very secure from being forcibly removed by a determined aggressor. Not even the double pistol grip...
Brent
 
Hey everyone. I just want so say thank you to everyone for commenting on pistol grip vs. stock shotguns. I'm new to shooting and I am planning on buying a 12 gauge shotgun. I just took the firearm safety course last weekend and I'm waiting on my firearms licence (I'm from Canada).

I was initially planning on buying shotgun with a stock and then sawing off the stock, but after reading this thread, I will definitely be keeping the stock. I'm 28, but I only weigh 155 lbs and I don't think I would be able to handle the recoil of a PG shotgun. I've watched some videos on youtube of people injuring themselves with guns, because they couldn't handle the recoil. My shotgun will be primarily for home protection, but I would also like to be able to shoot it reasonably accurately.

Here is the link to the gun I'm planning on buying:

http://www.canadaammo.com/product.php?productid=20&cat=3&page=1
 
I think I read somewhere that Dominion Arms manufactures their guns in China and they're imported and sold by canadaammo.com, but I could be wrong.
 
If you look hard enough on youtube, you will also see people hurt themselves with stocked shotguns and even handguns. Stupidity and improper technique can be dangerous.
 
Who said I can't perform, Southern Rebel?

In MD's old LE 3 gun league, I was HOA in 83 and 85. Runnerup in 84 to someone I taught.

Prior to that, I had to teach a few hundred COs to shoot folders from the hip. And I had to qualify over 90% on our course to remain a certified instructor. I did, but it took work I didn't need to do with a regular shotgun.

I've fired hundreds, maybe thousands of rounds from PG shotguns.

And folks that know me allow I hit most of what I shoot at.

Chances are I shoot rings around the average reader here and way better than the PGO fans.

Of course I'll never get to prove that since them guys just don't show up at the range.

Neither myself nor anyone else can shoot a PGO as well as a standard shotgun.

Why work with inferior equipment when the stakes are high?
 
Why work with inferior equipment when the stakes are high?
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HERE HERE!!! And AMEN!!!
And a lesson on tactics from another "ol bull" who waits for the young bulls to run down the hill and run the fat off the heifers.

this is a true story and I learned a great deal from it...
'Twas about 1977 or '78 and I was on a summer truckin' trip with my dad. He had to lay over every weekend in Sanford Florida awaiting his weekly load of tropical plants. He would stay at the Days Inn which was about 4 or 5 floors... I was 9 or 10 at the time. He had given me a whoppin' 20 dollar bill to spend as I see fit for the weekend but the deal was "when yer broke... yer broke, don't ask for money." well first night in the motel I seen that cool elevator after we had been up the stairs to our room. I said "Daddy, why did we walk up the stairs if there is an elevator?" He said "'Cuz the elevator is SLOW." Well when we were heading down to go to pizza hut I head for the elevator and hit the \/ button... He said he would take the stairs... I said "RACE YA..." He said "Loser buys supper" I said "Yer on!" I get in and hit the "1" and door close buttons... Door opened at each floor and no one was there to get on... I get to ground level and he is standing there with arms folded waiting on me.... I was HOT!!! I said "What the heck?" Over the supper he made me pay for he simply said "Son, you gotta learn never to gamble on anything less than a sure thing... than it is an investment." He also added that... "You need to learn to hedge your bets" And... "If you find yourself in a fair fight you ain't cheating hard enuff..."
Now back to Dave McC's point I quoted... "Any Questions???"
Brent
 
I am 52 and fired my first 22 at age 5. Been shooting rifles, handguns and shotguns ever since.
This is my final post on this subject, since it is getting repetitive.
1. No one claims that Pistol gripped shotguns are best as general use HD shotguns, best for hunting, best for skeet.
2. Pistol gripped shotguns have been used by pros for serious close quarters self defense.
3. If you don't feel the need to own one, or find that you are unable to perform with one within it's area of strength (close quarter combat, indoor SD), then don't own one.
Just don't insult those who take the time to practice with and master this weapon, and find that it fills a particular niche in their SD arsenal.
 
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