Onward Allusion
New member
Geez! I never thought of it in those terms, but you are 110% correct!!!
Physical Fitness is a MUST!
- Thread starter stonewall50
- Start date
Geez! I never thought of it in those terms, but you are 110% correct!!!
stonewall50
New member
I am glad this spawned such a long discussion.
I see a lot of talk about technique and lasting. The thing is with self defense, a situation is going to be over within seconds. Not minutes. I think we all generally know that. So the best and most effective techniques are the ones that are going to give you clearance and distance. When I train kali I prefer to learn about how to defend against blades and sticks with empty hands. I will probably never need my gun, and it is less likely that I will have a knife or stick in my hand either.
I recently read a book about a member of the SAS. When he discussed close quarters combat, he refered to higher level martial arts as being unneccessary and too fancy. What they learned was quick effective brawling skills. That is basically what I am advocating now. These skills can be practiced by a man named Lucky missing a leg and an eye with 1 hand behind his blown out back. All you need to be able to do is put out 1-3 brutal shots out.
As far as PHYSICAL fitness being so important...if you are older and you should talk to your doctor about a good workout. Even if you are 40 you should change your workout routine to fit your aging body. I talked to my dotor around my 22 birthday about my workout habbits and what I should do. It isn't that I am out of shape or need to change, I just want to know the best things to do for my no longer rubber teenage body. But if you want something for ability...be able to simply do 3 minutes of difficult cardio(for YOU). Why? Because no REAL fight is going to last that long. And you can build to that 3 minutes. That is all I really have...the rest I say here is simply my $5(i talk too much for it to be $0.02) on my own training for hand to hand.
The tactics I am most likely to use in a fight that I practice most often are BASIC skills that take very little effort. In the end my FIRST goal is escape. That means proper strike points (eyes, philtrum, nose, jaw line, throat, genitals, knees, and ankles). You hit someone with a quick direct shot to these locations and you have just given yourself a big chance of survival. I also don't practice a punches and kicks with these really. I don't want to break my smaller fingers if I miss. I use the heel of my hand, elbows, and knees. I actually have taken it to the point that I practice headbutting someone in the nose(but that is just my curve ball...we all have those). As far as getting in close like that I have worked my Brazillian Jiu Jitsu into the game as well...if you are familiar with the art you know that standup is the same as Judo basically. My instructor is actually a champion Judoka from Brazil. At 55 he can still throw ME (a full 100 pounds more). So I try to keep the footwork, sprawls, and trips in my standup game. The trips are a REALLY good technique to have in that defense bag because they are easy to pull off on someone who isn't watching their footwork.
I would say if you REALLY want to learn what techniques are effective...find somewhere that teaches general self defense (even a women's self defense course can be effective for a man because the techniques will be almost the exact same) learn a few moves and practice. And remember....SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. We all know that, but just remember to look around. It doesn't take more than a few miliseconds to see who that person is behind you.
I see a lot of talk about technique and lasting. The thing is with self defense, a situation is going to be over within seconds. Not minutes. I think we all generally know that. So the best and most effective techniques are the ones that are going to give you clearance and distance. When I train kali I prefer to learn about how to defend against blades and sticks with empty hands. I will probably never need my gun, and it is less likely that I will have a knife or stick in my hand either.
I recently read a book about a member of the SAS. When he discussed close quarters combat, he refered to higher level martial arts as being unneccessary and too fancy. What they learned was quick effective brawling skills. That is basically what I am advocating now. These skills can be practiced by a man named Lucky missing a leg and an eye with 1 hand behind his blown out back. All you need to be able to do is put out 1-3 brutal shots out.
As far as PHYSICAL fitness being so important...if you are older and you should talk to your doctor about a good workout. Even if you are 40 you should change your workout routine to fit your aging body. I talked to my dotor around my 22 birthday about my workout habbits and what I should do. It isn't that I am out of shape or need to change, I just want to know the best things to do for my no longer rubber teenage body. But if you want something for ability...be able to simply do 3 minutes of difficult cardio(for YOU). Why? Because no REAL fight is going to last that long. And you can build to that 3 minutes. That is all I really have...the rest I say here is simply my $5(i talk too much for it to be $0.02) on my own training for hand to hand.
The tactics I am most likely to use in a fight that I practice most often are BASIC skills that take very little effort. In the end my FIRST goal is escape. That means proper strike points (eyes, philtrum, nose, jaw line, throat, genitals, knees, and ankles). You hit someone with a quick direct shot to these locations and you have just given yourself a big chance of survival. I also don't practice a punches and kicks with these really. I don't want to break my smaller fingers if I miss. I use the heel of my hand, elbows, and knees. I actually have taken it to the point that I practice headbutting someone in the nose(but that is just my curve ball...we all have those). As far as getting in close like that I have worked my Brazillian Jiu Jitsu into the game as well...if you are familiar with the art you know that standup is the same as Judo basically. My instructor is actually a champion Judoka from Brazil. At 55 he can still throw ME (a full 100 pounds more). So I try to keep the footwork, sprawls, and trips in my standup game. The trips are a REALLY good technique to have in that defense bag because they are easy to pull off on someone who isn't watching their footwork.
I would say if you REALLY want to learn what techniques are effective...find somewhere that teaches general self defense (even a women's self defense course can be effective for a man because the techniques will be almost the exact same) learn a few moves and practice. And remember....SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. We all know that, but just remember to look around. It doesn't take more than a few miliseconds to see who that person is behind you.
warrior poet
New member
Physical fitness IS a MUST!! Not for shooting, but for living. Age, injury, and disease ultimately catch us all. The only way to "shoot back" is by working the body. Exercise is a proven, FREE (relatively, running shoes cost money) way to increase the quantity and quality of life. As the old saying goes, "If you can't run, walk. If you can't walk, crawl. But, by all means, keep moving." It sounds funny, but it works in life too. Keeping active keeps you able.
Oh, and there isn't just running. That's my addiction. There's swimming, hiking, martial arts, (all other addiction... guilty as charged.
) and many other activities for everyone. Get up, get outside, get moving... and shooting. 
Oh, and there isn't just running. That's my addiction. There's swimming, hiking, martial arts, (all other addiction... guilty as charged.
) and many other activities for everyone. Get up, get outside, get moving... and shooting. I have yet to see an old farmer couldnt pick up his load 
country living keeps one fit and strong. Daily heavy work is key, lift up stuff carry it around drop it there etc. I unload 2 ton of feed in bags weigh 80 lbs by myself, saturday went up on the barn roof to replace broken sky lites, saved 500 insur money doing it myself, roof and siding on house is next.
Physical work is good for ya, not as much is done these days as in older times. Cut up a tree went over next I will split it up by hand....
Get out and do some work, or come over and lend me a hand
country living keeps one fit and strong. Daily heavy work is key, lift up stuff carry it around drop it there etc. I unload 2 ton of feed in bags weigh 80 lbs by myself, saturday went up on the barn roof to replace broken sky lites, saved 500 insur money doing it myself, roof and siding on house is next.Physical work is good for ya, not as much is done these days as in older times. Cut up a tree went over next I will split it up by hand....
Get out and do some work, or come over and lend me a hand
ToraBoraBlues
Inactive
Somewhat related topic, if anybody here has access to an outdoor or backyard range, I highly recommend setting up a course, even if it's as simple as cans on a log. Do it once rested, then do five minutes of vigorous physical activity e.g. running at a near sprint or burpees and then repeat the course. It will give you an idea of how you WILL shoot during an andrenaline rush.
Deaf Smith
New member
stonewall,
I still do 180 degree front splits. I still do spinning heal kicks (high) on bags. I work out three days a week. One day feet (kicks), one day hands, and a third general day workout. And Sundays I sometimes do weights when I'm bored. Been doing this since collage. 56 years old now.
And weekly range session were my gun practice is virtually all street orientated.
See I made martial arts and shooting my hobbies long time ago. Some people like golf, some tennis, and I just love to workout and shoot. Of course my wife thinks it's all a bore. But hey, she loves to paint the rooms and garden (and you can guess how I feel about that!)
Deaf
I still do 180 degree front splits. I still do spinning heal kicks (high) on bags. I work out three days a week. One day feet (kicks), one day hands, and a third general day workout. And Sundays I sometimes do weights when I'm bored. Been doing this since collage. 56 years old now.
And weekly range session were my gun practice is virtually all street orientated.
See I made martial arts and shooting my hobbies long time ago. Some people like golf, some tennis, and I just love to workout and shoot. Of course my wife thinks it's all a bore. But hey, she loves to paint the rooms and garden (and you can guess how I feel about that!)
Deaf
All that exercising stuff is great, even being 20 years old was great too but you can't stay that way forever. We all are I'n different categories, ages fitness levels and all. We all should be packing and some kind of training to the best of our abilities. Even law enforcement officers, look at some of their bodies not all are fit alot are way out of shape yet they handle and take care of situations on a day to day basis. Just be prepared and the most thing is use your head.
The strongest muscle is between your ears. Avoiding conflict is the best move. Father Time is a cruel S.O.B! Not everybody is Steven Segal or Chuck Norris.
My father grew up in the oil fields, connecting iron on tall buildings and ranching. He's 77 and I still wouldn't want to tangle with him. But he'd just as soon shoot ya if he had to. Luckily his temper has mellowed with age too.
Don't think he ever tried a roundhouse kick like Walker, Texas Ranger. That guy didin't even need a gun.
My father grew up in the oil fields, connecting iron on tall buildings and ranching. He's 77 and I still wouldn't want to tangle with him. But he'd just as soon shoot ya if he had to. Luckily his temper has mellowed with age too.
Don't think he ever tried a roundhouse kick like Walker, Texas Ranger. That guy didin't even need a gun.
The thing is, you can be a marathon cyclist, hiker, racquetball playing, fencing fool (as I was) and one relatively minor incident can leave your abdomen looking like shredded hamburger inside.
Three major surgeries later I can (mostly) move like any uninjured person but I'm carrying about 50lbs of extra weight due to steroids, enforced sedentary lifestyle, and my own carelessness. I'm making decent progress back into a proper weight range now but I'll never again be where I was pre-injury no matter how much I exercise 'cause the damage was just too much.
Sometimes you don't get a choice in the matter of physical fitness. In fact the older you get the less choice you tend to have.
That's when you have to get smarter and figure out what is going to compensate for what time and nature may have taken away.
Three major surgeries later I can (mostly) move like any uninjured person but I'm carrying about 50lbs of extra weight due to steroids, enforced sedentary lifestyle, and my own carelessness. I'm making decent progress back into a proper weight range now but I'll never again be where I was pre-injury no matter how much I exercise 'cause the damage was just too much.
Sometimes you don't get a choice in the matter of physical fitness. In fact the older you get the less choice you tend to have.
That's when you have to get smarter and figure out what is going to compensate for what time and nature may have taken away.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
It all sounds good in theory, and training and fitness are not likely to be a negative, but a high number of completely untrained (gun, fitness or H2H) people manage to defend themselves with firearms on a daily basis.
This is not to say that training isn't more likely to be beneficial than not but the importance might be a tad over blown, at times.
Awareness, logic and common sense are more likely to keep you out of or get you out of trouble, and you're (somewhat) less likely to lose those as you age... at least at first.
This is not to say that training isn't more likely to be beneficial than not but the importance might be a tad over blown, at times.
Awareness, logic and common sense are more likely to keep you out of or get you out of trouble, and you're (somewhat) less likely to lose those as you age... at least at first.
robmkivseries70
New member
Check with your Dr. of course, but mine said,"Walk for 20 Min. a day, 6 days a week. As it gets easier, walk faster." I now have to stretch correctly or my lower back is out of it but I am loosing weight.
Best,
Rob
Best,
Rob
Staying in as good as shape as possible not just for self defense but for enjoyment of life is a given, and I am always amazed at people with high levels of martial arts skills.
That being said almost anyone in any condition, old, young, fit, disabled, can pull a trigger and one bullet can be your ticket out of here.
Spent a year in Nam and saw much close quarters combat but no hand to hand combat.
I have thought of developing an arm guard for each arm for the outside of the arm from the elbow to the wrist with blades or spikes covered in foam and concealed by a long sleeve shirt. You would not want it on the inside of the elbow as punches could put it in your face. I hate bullies and now if you try everything to disengage but have to fight just blocking punches could cut off your attackers fingers. I also thought of developing a similar leg guard for the front of the thighs and calves to block foot kicks and concealed by your pants and if it came to grappling you could literally cut your opponent to ribbons. Can you imagine a knee to the groin. Am in the process on working on a patent now.
Probably illegal or developed by someone, and would have to be used only defensively but seems like a logical solution.
That being said almost anyone in any condition, old, young, fit, disabled, can pull a trigger and one bullet can be your ticket out of here.
Spent a year in Nam and saw much close quarters combat but no hand to hand combat.
I have thought of developing an arm guard for each arm for the outside of the arm from the elbow to the wrist with blades or spikes covered in foam and concealed by a long sleeve shirt. You would not want it on the inside of the elbow as punches could put it in your face. I hate bullies and now if you try everything to disengage but have to fight just blocking punches could cut off your attackers fingers. I also thought of developing a similar leg guard for the front of the thighs and calves to block foot kicks and concealed by your pants and if it came to grappling you could literally cut your opponent to ribbons. Can you imagine a knee to the groin. Am in the process on working on a patent now.
Probably illegal or developed by someone, and would have to be used only defensively but seems like a logical solution.
Being fit is important. I am not as fit as I once was (due to injury) and am only in my late 20's. But I still can do hand to hand combate if the need araises long enough to get to my weapon. I have had to use H2H befor(while in Astan) and it was not fun at all. Being aware of what is around you and what is going on is key. If you only work the body and not the brain, then you will not be able to use the fit body that you have. I am now able to work out and run some but it has taken me 5 almost 6 years to get back to where I can. But just because some one is older or not in great shape dont mean that they are less likly to be able to defend them selves. I saw this first hand when I was in my teens twice.
A family friend who at the time was in his early 80's was sitting in the truck in his driveway reading a paper when a car load of thugs driving by started firing at the truck. He was able get out of the truck pull both of the revolers ( 2 awesome original Colt SA 45's with 7.5 inch barrels) out of his pants and placed 11 out of 12 shots into their car befor it was able to travel around 50ft which was his field of view. One of the perps. begged the cop to take him away befor the OLD man desided to start shooting again. The even better part was is the perps. are the ones that called the police. LOL. Willey, the old man, told one of the cops to let them SOB's know that if they ever wanted to try him again that next time he would be aiming at them and not car parts. Which I feel was true because him and I use to fire at quaters placed on a post 10 yards in front of us. He was dead befor I ever hollowed one out, but he could do it at least 4 out of 6 shots and all shots hit the quater just not dead center.
My grand Pap when in his mid 70's and battleing cancer was easly able to stop a home invasion by a younger person. He able to get out of bed, grab his weapon and met the SOB as if was making it through the front door. The attacker went for him but he was quick enough to move and fire, wounding the attacker. The would be attacker did end up being a whole lot faster though once 38 rounds started his direction. He managed to get away since it took the police some 30 minutes to respond.
Both of these men had never stoped working their minds and brains and that is to why they were sharp enough to make it through alive. They knew that they may have to defend them selves but also knew that it would very short and quick on H2H and that the desiding factor would be the weapons skill and useage. Being in shape would have been nice for either of them since it took both of them a couple of days to get over the effects of the rush of it all. But it taught me one thing which I have seen posted a couple of times already in this thread. DONT MESS WITH AN OLD GUY HE WILL SHOOT YOUR A**
A family friend who at the time was in his early 80's was sitting in the truck in his driveway reading a paper when a car load of thugs driving by started firing at the truck. He was able get out of the truck pull both of the revolers ( 2 awesome original Colt SA 45's with 7.5 inch barrels) out of his pants and placed 11 out of 12 shots into their car befor it was able to travel around 50ft which was his field of view. One of the perps. begged the cop to take him away befor the OLD man desided to start shooting again. The even better part was is the perps. are the ones that called the police. LOL. Willey, the old man, told one of the cops to let them SOB's know that if they ever wanted to try him again that next time he would be aiming at them and not car parts. Which I feel was true because him and I use to fire at quaters placed on a post 10 yards in front of us. He was dead befor I ever hollowed one out, but he could do it at least 4 out of 6 shots and all shots hit the quater just not dead center.
My grand Pap when in his mid 70's and battleing cancer was easly able to stop a home invasion by a younger person. He able to get out of bed, grab his weapon and met the SOB as if was making it through the front door. The attacker went for him but he was quick enough to move and fire, wounding the attacker. The would be attacker did end up being a whole lot faster though once 38 rounds started his direction. He managed to get away since it took the police some 30 minutes to respond.
Both of these men had never stoped working their minds and brains and that is to why they were sharp enough to make it through alive. They knew that they may have to defend them selves but also knew that it would very short and quick on H2H and that the desiding factor would be the weapons skill and useage. Being in shape would have been nice for either of them since it took both of them a couple of days to get over the effects of the rush of it all. But it taught me one thing which I have seen posted a couple of times already in this thread. DONT MESS WITH AN OLD GUY HE WILL SHOOT YOUR A**
stonewall50
New member
Again great replies. Something that we might want to look at physilogically...
If a person of any age were to start a decent workout regimen some things would start to happen. Your awareness would improve. I know this seems odd, but if you adopt a program of hard work (and lay off the coffee) your body will process adrenaline MUCH better. So in a time of stress your adrenal glands will be kicking at full blast, and the more used to this and less burned out they are the better. Adrenaline will cause you to make mistakes too, and that is why it is good to work under stress during practice.
This has all been general thoughts on my part, and more of a reminder to keep in shape. I try to never assume I did enough work to NOT workout(but I still crash at night sometimes without doing anything, we all do). I will say that if you found me on the street you would realize I am not a fitness nut...I am sturdy built. I got myself a gut and I am not super stacked in arm muscle either. I will say that I regularly win in Jiu Jitsu because I know how to conserve my energy and use energy bursting rather than brute strength. Of course...the guys who regularly beat me do the same thing...but ARE physically fit too(and usually better lol).
If a person of any age were to start a decent workout regimen some things would start to happen. Your awareness would improve. I know this seems odd, but if you adopt a program of hard work (and lay off the coffee) your body will process adrenaline MUCH better. So in a time of stress your adrenal glands will be kicking at full blast, and the more used to this and less burned out they are the better. Adrenaline will cause you to make mistakes too, and that is why it is good to work under stress during practice.
This has all been general thoughts on my part, and more of a reminder to keep in shape. I try to never assume I did enough work to NOT workout(but I still crash at night sometimes without doing anything, we all do). I will say that if you found me on the street you would realize I am not a fitness nut...I am sturdy built. I got myself a gut and I am not super stacked in arm muscle either. I will say that I regularly win in Jiu Jitsu because I know how to conserve my energy and use energy bursting rather than brute strength. Of course...the guys who regularly beat me do the same thing...but ARE physically fit too(and usually better lol).
Another benefit that, if it's been listed, I haven't noticed in this thread: People who work out regularly tend to be in a generally better mood than people who don't. A good workout releases endorphins.
Also, as stonewall50 noted, workouts help release and deal with stress. This also goes a long way toward improving overall mood.
I noticed, as a flight instructor back in the '90s, that students who remained physically active (gym, sports, outdoor hobbies) tended to perform better in the flight syllabus than did the students who locked themselves in a study area and remained generally tense. So, subjectively, physical activity in a completely unrelated area still seemed to bear on performance - most likely due to lowered overall stress levels.
Also, as stonewall50 noted, workouts help release and deal with stress. This also goes a long way toward improving overall mood.
I noticed, as a flight instructor back in the '90s, that students who remained physically active (gym, sports, outdoor hobbies) tended to perform better in the flight syllabus than did the students who locked themselves in a study area and remained generally tense. So, subjectively, physical activity in a completely unrelated area still seemed to bear on performance - most likely due to lowered overall stress levels.
warrior poet
New member
I don't think anyone has touched on a fundamental truth. Shooting is fun... physical activities are fun... at least they are to me and just about everyone that I know. One of the main reasons I shoot is because I enjoy it. I work out (Actually, I hate that term. I "play out" and it is SOOOOO much better.) because I enjoy it.
Food for thought. Orienteering. It combines land navigation, hiking, and physical activity into one of the most fun things to do in the woods. Plus, all those skills come in handy in hunting, self-defense, and overall fitness- physical and mental.
Food for thought. Orienteering. It combines land navigation, hiking, and physical activity into one of the most fun things to do in the woods. Plus, all those skills come in handy in hunting, self-defense, and overall fitness- physical and mental.