Pepper Spray all aspects

Seems like if I used a chemical spray, that would be considered escalating the altercation, and at the very least I could expect to be sprayed back; or sued; or attacked with greater vigor creating a more dangerous situation.
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Nonsense. Ask a local LEO for advice, and then contact your local DA to see how often charges of assault are brought against someone who has used spray in self defense.
This is the thing that scares me the most about self defense...Is that I will hesitate and it will cost me my life. I am pretty sure that If faced with a threat of any kind (leathal or not)... I will hesitate. It is my nature (for better or worse). The last thing I want to do is hurt anyone. I just can't make the mental leap that the person who approaches and asks for money means to rob and kill me. I just think they want some change. But if I survive my initial hesitation, and I have to make a deliberate decision to draw/use a weapon while I am on my a** or in any other compromised position I would rather come up smoking than spraying. I just can't see the need for spray.
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Based on the above paragraph, I would say that you need to do a lot more soul searching on the value of human life (yours, your loved ones, and even those who would do you harm) before carrying a firearm. It sounds like you know what the law says, but its the laws of your conscience that you have not yet resolved. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but it is the most important part of conditioning your mind to defend your life. Yes, there is a good chance that if and when you do have to use your firearm to defend yourself you will take someones life. Someones child, brother, spouse, best friend. And it might be over something trivial that they have initiated a deadly threat over. Maybe a couple bucks from your pocket, maybe your vehicle.

Having a respect for all human life is a good thing. That is what seperates us from the predators out there preying on the weak. I feel it is my duty to defend life from those who do not respect life. With that said, I don't believe I would hesitate, but I'll never know until it happens. My mindset however, is not preset to confuse my conscience before it even happens.
 
Excellent post, 'spiff.

Despite what some might thing it ain't about blood-lust, it ain't about itching for a "good shoot." It is about being resolved in your own mind if and when you would use lethal force upon another human being to protect yourself and loved ones. To paraphrase, he who hesitates is dead.
 
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You guys are missing the most important part: Pepper spray is GREAT if you've got a pot of chili that you need to season, FAST! (kidding...)

Pepper spray is nothing more than a device for disbursing a caustic chemical. That's it. It is not "only good for one thing..." as MOST people on this thread have stated. (Although, noone can seem to agree what that "one thing" is...) It's good for MANY things. It can cause pain, it can cause blindness, it can cause shortness of breath, and certain models even include a paint-like marker to identify what's been sprayed.

The flip-side to this point is the distinction between whether a gun is "only good for killing human beings." There is SO much more that you can do with a gun! You can hunt, target shoot, shoot to wound, shoot to disrupt little steel plates, etc... If a gun is "only one" thing, then it is simply a device for propelling a bullet at a high rate of speed.

My point? My point... I guess what I'm trying to say is that, once you start attributing "only one thing" that a particular weapon is good for, you start assigning a connotative value (emotion) to that weapon. Certain weapons can be seen as "good," or "evil," or "merciful," or "harsh," based on the mischaracterization of their function.

So, everyone remember, you CAN drive a nail with a can of pepper spray...
 
Some Good General Info on... (Police Forums are a good to check for info also)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHqK-hGuSMc&feature=related
http://ezinearticles.com/?Will-Pepper-Spray-Protect-Me?&id=631380
http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/relatedinfo/training.shtml

Some willing subjects :rolleyes: :D
(caution some cursing in the following vids..be warned!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqWE-kBpyiI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcqWdgZHik0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMJgSuaEOPk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lmq_59z6rs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJn1Fu6pHlQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBZoNyi8SXA
1 1/2 hours after a police OC qualification...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkqlhlSWz-0&feature=related

Bottom Line..Pepper Spray Works, seen it! ..also tested and carried it when I worked and commuted off hours in NYC (where CC was a no-no) is also good to remember to do some side stepping footwork in an SD situation, after all..you are fighting ;) ..and preferably oriented Upwind (if very windy)

Buying Quality is imperative with OC..otherwise your more than likely just getting ineffective Junk (the best sprays often have to be ordered, as opposed to off-brands bought at Walmart) ..the difference in effect between sprays can be what one might perceive as getting sprayed with Battery acid vs getting sprayed with taco sauce. :D ..Foggers and Cone pattern units are generally more effective (also on animals) in that they have greater respiratory effects and you can leave lingering clouds behind you while fleeing ..is also better for multiple attackers, But is more susceptible to the wind vs the Stream units.

FOX Labs has become a standard ..even at 2% they've figured a way to refine and amplify the effects well beyond that of higher percent sprays and takes effect quicker as well.
http://www.defensedevices.com/worhotpepspr.html
http://www.defensedevices.com/freeze-p-pepper-spray.html
http://www.guardian-self-defense.com/Images/Pepperspray/What are officers saying about Fox...2.pdf

The Original Mace® Brand(MSI) products are also quality products and are probably the best bet for the smallest size units like their 1/2oz(11-18 gram)sized flip-tops(easier,safer and sturdier than the spin-tops) http://www.macebrand.com/ ..never cared much for Sabre' but their new triple-action red formula is said to be good.
Haven't carried OC in sometime, but do agree its good to have a non-lethal alternative.
Just bought a 2.oz FOX-5.3 flip-top cone unit that I'll be carrying from now on.
 
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I just taped a training video on the topic for the PDV DVD Series... it will be released later this year. In going through the content preparation, I had to think about an analyze OC more than I had in years. When I was in LE, I hated the stuff, because (as noted previsously) it doesn't always (often....??) make the subject stop trying to fight/struggle/resist and in LE we HAD to control the subject after the spraying, which meant that we were going to get contaminated/irritated. not good.

In a Self Defense situation, you don't have that concern, so it is a more viable option. But, you absolutely NEED to practice deploying it. We taped an actual subject getting sprayed during a mock attack and our actress had quite a hard time getting the mechanics of getting the keychain out of her purse, orienting it properly, disabling the safety (rotating the button..) and the hitting the roleplayer in the face. We had her try at least 5 times with an inert spray first. While it may be stressful to have a couple HD video cameras in your face, it is nothing like being attacked by a would be rapist wielding a knife. Unfortunately, most companies do not offer inert training units to civilians. It is certainly worth buying two cans and using one for practice, however (just do it in a well ventilated area! ;) ).

Be aware of what you are carrying and find out what the numbers mean. There are a lot of ways to twist the numbers on the labels. There is no regulation on the way the manufacturers come up with some of the numbers.. in fact, only the sprays designed/advertised to stop bears have an industry standard (it is higher than recommended for people). Also, be aware of the "inert" agents in the mix. Some of them are flammable.

-RJP
 
I just wonder why I should risk the failure of a pepper spray when I am already being attacked at short-range and carry a handgun. If it's to close, I have to use my hand-to-hand skills anyway because drawing any tool would take to long. If I can draw only one tool in the little time I have left it sure will be my handgun. I don't have to take chances under attack.
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It has to do with the use of force necessary to end the situation. If you run across someone like say a violent drunk, you may not be justified in using deadly force in that situation without getting into trouble with the law. By the same token, hand-to-hand skills against someone bigger, stronger or better than you may also prove to be not enough force to end the situation. Maybe you can deploy it in time, maybe not. Maybe your hand-to-hand skills are going to be enough, maybe not. Maybe a firearm is needed at times, maybe not. I think of OC as another tool that is compact, lightweight, and easy to carry that adds another level of defense I have an OPTION to use.
 
So where do batons come into play? I'm looking at a place near me that has a certification for baton use, and it intrigues me.
 
I have seen it fail to work, in a training class. One of the women in the class simply did not respond to the stuff. The instructor sprayed her. She blinked and said, "That's it?"

With her consent, he sprayed her again -- a longer spray from a closer distance. She kind of half-sneezed, half-snorted, and shrugged.

He went and got a fresh can and tried again. She shrugged and they gave up.
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I'd like to know what brand that was. Not saying that's the only variable, but I'd still like to know.

FOX Labs has become a standard
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Amen.
 
Pepper spray certainly isn't the 'end all, be all' of every situation.
I consider it another tool in a layered defence. I've taken a few good clouds of it over the years, I'd say it works on me.:eek:

There simply are those circumstances that arise that do not call for deadly force, human or otherwise.
If nothing else, it may give you the time to take other actions or avenues of escape.
 
I've seen references to a few states' laws to where you can't carry spray and a sidearm at the same time, or you need a separate license for each, or can't carry spray at all. What's the dealio with that?
 
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