Paying for a few letters in a particular order.

[Pond James Pond]

Back in the 90s there were a few European car brands known for their, shall we say, loose interpretation of the word "quality".

Two examples were the Spanish marque, Seat ("Sei-at") which produced cars unable to cope with the weather outside the Iberian peninsula, whilst being somewhat inefficient, and unreliable, but cheap. Then there was the Czech marque, Skoda, whose existance spawned no end of poor jokes

(What do you call a Skoda with two exhaust pipes? A wheel-barrow! Haha-hoohoo! Why do Skodas have heated rear windows? To keep your hands warm as you push...! Guffaw!! You get the idea.)

Anyway, in the late 90's both these brands were bought out by VW who also own Audi. After an extensive and very successful re-branding campaign, Seats were seen as the youthful peppy brand for those young at heart, whilst Skodas became the smart shopers choice of a quality product without the price.

All this is to illustrate that you can essentially buy a Seat or Skoda and be buying the same engine, chassis, build and similar performance/style as an Audi priced 40-50% higher.

In other words one of the only remaining reasons to specifically buy an Audi, beyond some exclusive performance models, is the badge. For day-to-day driving it is just that badge that will show any difference in the quality of one's journey.

The connection with guns?

Well, I'd like to know which are the brands for which, to all intents and purposes, the buyer is paying a premium for the letters stamped on the side of the slide?

Which companies managed to raise their retail price by virtue of their name?

I can think of a few, but my opinion is purely based on what I've read here and not on any real hands-on experience of the wider gun market, so I'll just see what others come up with.

(PS, let's keep this civil, eh? They're just brands, not family honours!)

 

[RodTheWrench]

The best one that comes to mind is HK. Great quality guns, true, but nowhere worth the premium.

Having said that, I don't know that HKs have any sister brands that are functionally the same, but cheaper.

 

[Pond James Pond]

Had forgotten about HK.

The whole sister-brand example was just to illustrate that sometimes we pay more (knowingly or not) for the name and could get just as good a product for less.

Any examples offered here do not need to also have a "budget line" arm to the named company. Simply does the company slap on an "ego" premium or not.

 

[Nathan]

I think about Kimber when you say this.

They have a base 1911 design and all of them from $700 to $2500 all share it. They use those same parts across the board from what I can tell. The mold marks show up on all price levels. They have no real match barrels or other premium parts from what I've seen. They do have premium grips and finishes.


Now, I would argue that Audi part by part has distinguished itself from Seats and Skoda. It is about premium materials, exclusive tooling, etc.
For example, you could take 2 exact same appearing cars(to the customer) make one a 40 mpg family car and 1 a 27 mpg performance luxury. The 2 would be separated in sticker price by $20k. Differences? Dampers, aluminum Susp components, turbo, etc.

 

[Bpcurious]

Colt

 

[Pond James Pond]

Re Audi vs Skoda, based on what the sales guy had said to me once, it was a case of "buy the new A4 now, or buy the same car for less with Octavia on the back in a year or two" So, one could argue that you get a bit more for the money, but seeing as I could get the beta tested model for less, I'd put my money on the Skoda. Allegedly, part cross-compatibility is pretty high on many major parts.

Colt was the other brand I was thinking about.
Again, not through personal experience, but it seems that people would generally buy one because of the name rather than some vastly superior level in quality.

 

[ninjarealist]

I don't think HK is a fair example because, while you could make the argument that they're over-priced solely due to brand name, you can't buy guns that are the same as HK guns for a lower price.

Now I don't mean that HK guns preform better than guns below their price range. That's highly debatable at best.

However, in terms of aesthetics, there are no polymer pistols (with the singular exception of the Walther P99) that look as good as HK pistols. For my money, the USP is the most beautiful polymer gun ever made. I cannot think of another handgun that looks like the USP. Nor are there any USP clones as far as I know.

So if I want a gun that looks like a USP then it's HK or bust.

 

[Mosin-Marauder]

I kinda want to say Mauser, their current guns anyway.

The M98 runs about $3,500 I think. I wouldn't pay that much for a bolt gun, but they are made very well. While an M12 runs less than half of that.

Definitely Springfield too.

 

[jimbob86]

However, in terms of aesthetics, there are no polymer pistols (with the singular exception of the Walther P99) that look as good as HK pistols. For my money, the USP is the most beautiful polymer gun ever made. I cannot think of another handgun that looks like the USP. Nor are there any USP clones as far as I know.

"looks" are entirely subjective, and heavily influenced by marketing.

I don't see them as better than any other polymer gun out there ......they've just been featured on more video game covers...... marketing genius, that.

 

[44 AMP]

I don't know anything about their cars, but during WWII Skoda built tanks (among other things) which were considered very good in their class.

Some guns, like some cars are not owned just for their utility, but also for perceived prestige.

Like the ambiance of an expensive restaurant, prestige is not something I spend my limited money on.

I do admit, I enjoy it when other people are impressed by the guns I own, but the only person I ever buy a gun to impress is me. (and a number of guns I've bought have failed in even that small task. )

I think maybe I get that from my Dad. Back in about 1970, when I started seriously getting interested in guns, I remember going to a store with my Dad.

There was a S&W Highway Patrolman (model 28) and a Colt Trooper Mk III in their case. The S&W was $140. The Trooper was $188. I asked my Dad, "why is that one so much more?"
"Because it says COLT on it, that's the only reason."

 

[ninjarealist]

"looks" are entirely subjective, and heavily influenced by marketing.

I don't see them as better than any other polymer gun out there ......they've just been featured on more video game covers...... marketing genius, that.

Right, exactly, it's my opinion. That's why I bought a USP because I think it's the most aesthetically pleasing polymer pistol on the market and, given that it's also very well-made, I didn't mind paying a hundreds of dollars premium over similarly preforming pistols that I just don't think look as good.

Now do I feel that way about the aesthetics of the USP because of marketing? Maybe. The gun was prominently featured in many of the popular video games of my youth. I also own a Beretta 92 and a Mossberg 500, which were also big video game/movie guns. On a conscious level, it didn't figure into my purchase but, on a subconscious level, it very well may have.

But still, my point is that I'm willing to pay the premium because, in my opinion, the gun is a masterpiece of visual art. Because, while I do own many generic , "throw away", polymer pistols, I also appreciate pistols as pieces of art and history. That's why I bought the USP, that's why I bought the Beretta 92 as well (although again both are excellent guns on top of looking beautiful).

It's not about the prestige, it's about my own appreciation of the gun. I rarely socialize and I never show anyone my guns. I'm not buying guns to impress people.

I bought the gun because every time I look over and see my USP on my nightstand (safely holstered) it makes me smile a little to appreciate how beautiful it is.

 

[SHR970]

Since Pond gave the Audi Skoda example I'll furnish the first "Sister & Brother" example...

Miroku and Weatherby. The Mk V is made by Miroku but you get to pay for the Weatherby name.

 

[Pond James Pond]

It's not about the prestige, it's about my own appreciation of the gun.

Which therefore means this is not really relevant to the question of the thread.

You've bought an HK because you like the gun. That is a perfectly valid reason to buy anything.
Now, had you bought the gun and accepted the inflated price tag that HKs tend to command largely because there was "HK" on the side, that would be a different story and also the crux of the thread.

Miroku and Weatherby. The Mk V is made by Miroku but you get to pay for the Weatherby name.

That example certainly fits!! So how much more does a Weatherby set one back?

 

[SHR970]

Mk V is about 1140 Euro. what does a Miroku run in GB? They aren't offered here as such. But then again, see what else is also under the Miroku banner.

 

[RaySendero]

Yeah - Kimber was my 1st thought, but that Mauser example changed my mind!

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I think about Kimber when you say this.

Colt

Kimber is the brand that immediately came to mind for me. I certainly would NOT put Colt in there. Kimber uses arguably the most MIM parts of all 1911 makes -- Colt uses about the fewest (except for custom and semi-custom makers). In general, Colts are more reliable than Kimbers, lower priced than Kimbers, and Colt provides better customer service than Kimber.

Kimber has somehow created a name for itself (mostly, I suspect, by flashy, full-page ads in ALL the gun magazines, so when you buy a Kimber you're paying a premium for an artificially inflated (and undeserved, IMHO) reputation. On the other hand, I think Colts are generally under-priced for the quality of the firearm you get -- and you're getting the Colt name on top of that.

 

[Bpcurious]

In general, Colts are more reliable than Kimbers, lower priced than Kimbers, and Colt provides better customer service than Kimber.

Well if you were comparing Colt's to Kimber's then you'd be right. But Colt's do tend to run 200-300 more than comparable guns, with comparable quality and warranty.

That's why I bought a USP because I think it's the most aesthetically pleasing polymer pistol on the market..

And my opinion is that they modeled the USP after a brick. Its chunky, clunky and heavy for what it is. Reliable? Sure. Oh and how do you like your trigger?

 

[jimbob86]

Its chunky, clunky and heavy

Big clumsy girls need lovin', too....... and there's someone for everyone.

Ain't diversity Great?

 

[Snyper]

So how much more does a Weatherby set one back?

It depends on the specific model.
Most are priced the same as comparable models of other brands

I think the sort of things you're talking about aren't as common as they were 50 years ago, when you could buy what was really a Winchester 94 at Sears that was called a "Ranger", or a Belgium FN Mauser that said "J C Higgins".

The "store brands" have pretty much fallen by the wayside

 

[Taco-XL]

Good example of paying for a stamping is the HS 2000 made in Croatia. Its now sold in the US as basically the same gun but Springfield stamped "XD" on them and, of course, raised the price. Ah, the lovely invention of the re-brand