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Pay attention to what is around and behind your target!!!
- Thread starter meadams314
- Start date
Gunplummer
New member
How can you tell if a hunter is unsafe? Sometimes a hunting accident is just that, and has nothing to do with behavior. I see hunters on public land during deer season with brownish camo on and the smallest, dirtiest, orange vest and hat they can come up with. Many times I have caught hunters "Way in" with no orange at all. One year we caught a guy in a Ghilli suit. I have never been involved in a hunting accident and don't want to be, but sometimes "accidents" are really not totally the shooters fault. Either way, you have to pay attention to what others are doing too.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Sometimes a hunting accident is just that, and has nothing to do with behavior.
I really don't know of any that are truly accidents. They all involve some form of negligence. They may be unintentional, but wholly preventable. Care to provide some examples of "accidents"?
I have never been involved in a hunting accident and don't want to be, but sometimes "accidents" are really not totally the shooters fault.
Generally speaking, the victim doesn't pull the trigger, so by and large, the hunter who pulled the trigger or mishandled the firearm is at fault.
The hunter/shooter may not be totally at fault, but there are darned few hunting incidents where s/he isn't totally or close to totally at fault.
Care to provide some examples of "accidents"?
What about the instances of Remington 700's firing as the bolt was closed? Not the shooters fault - the manufacturers. You could argue negligence on the manufacturer but from the shooter's standpoint it was a true accident.
Double Naught Spy
New member
What about the instances of Remington 700's firing as the bolt was closed? Not the shooters fault - the manufacturers. You could argue negligence on the manufacturer but from the shooter's standpoint it was a true accident.
Fair enough, though these are extremely rare. In every case where a person was injured, it was the gun handler's fault for not having the rifle pointed in a safe direction while handling the rifle. It may have gone off unintentionally and been and accidental firing, but the injury was because of unsafe handling. In the realm of the number of hunting incidents every year, these are VERY few.
When you couch your argument with the generalized statement that sometimes accidents are just accidents, it gives the impression that this isn't just a rare exception, but actually pretty common and that isn't the case. You said that these incidents had nothing to do with behavior, but in the cases of the REM 700s, they ALL had to do with behavior in the handling of the rifles in an unsafe manner. The guns should not have gone off. That is absolutely true. However, the guns should not have been pointed at a human either.
Deerhunter
New member
Quote:
What about the instances of Remington 700's firing as the bolt was closed? Not the shooters fault - the manufacturers. You could argue negligence on the manufacturer but from the shooter's standpoint it was a true accident.
Fair enough, though these are extremely rare. In every case where a person was injured, it was the gun handler's fault for not having the rifle pointed in a safe direction while handling the rifle. It may have gone off unintentionally and been and accidental firing, but the injury was because of unsafe handling. In the realm of the number of hunting incidents every year, these are VERY few.
When you couch your argument with the generalized statement that sometimes accidents are just accidents, it gives the impression that this isn't just a rare exception, but actually pretty common and that isn't the case. You said that these incidents had nothing to do with behavior, but in the cases of the REM 700s, they ALL had to do with behavior in the handling of the rifles in an unsafe manner. The guns should not have gone off. That is absolutely true. However, the guns should not have been pointed at a human either.
I had that happen to my Remington 700 once. It was the end of the day and we were unloading guns. I always pay attention to where others and I am sure glad I started and keep that habit. After a long day of walking around spot and stalking pigs we were beat tired. I did something I shouldn't have done and went to eject the round in the chamber before just dumping the floor plate. I was trying to ease the bolt forward and back so I could just catch the rounds. Well it was acting up so I got a little rougher with the bolt and BOOM that thing went off. Again I am just super glad that I was paying attention to where my 2 buddies where and I had them behind me when I was unloading that gun. I sent if off to a gun smith who checked it all out. Still can't figure out exactly why it did that, as he couldn't get it to do it again. All seems good since. Could have been a real bad day.
So "accident" avoided by paying attention to what was around me even when I wasn't intending to shoot.
Gunplummer
New member
A few years ago a hunter was shot near here during deer season. It had started to rain and he put a blueish-grey tarp over where he was sitting. There were deer wandering behind him and a another hunter shot at them and hit him. The other hunter never saw him. The area is loaded with boulders and the tarp blended right in. Sounds like an accident to me. It is amazing how close you can walk to someone wearing orange when in the woods before sighting them.
Seldom is an accident entirely one persons fault (unless obviously there is only one person involved i.e. self inflicted injury). The Rem 700 issue while rare does happen, however is the person holding the firearm follows the first rule as they manipulate the bolt it goes from an injury or worse to holy crap that was loud. First rule = Point the muzzle in a safe direction.
The second incident the victim actually was the primary person to "blame", while understandable to cover yourself with a tarp to keep out of the rain, simply placing an orange vest over the top of his head (on top of the tarp) would possibly have prevented it (been there and done that one) an extra few seconds of effort is worth it, especially if it saves my butt. If the tarp was suspended over his head and simply blocked the shooters sight of him, then honestly I don't know what other reasonable action he could have taken. As an Instructor I get to read the annual reports of the accidents occasionally and essentially you don't see any that couldn't be prevented by the basic safety rules, the good old 10 commandments of firearms safety. There are the occasional oddball happenstances such as true firearm malfunctions (say an AR fires out of battery and injures the shooters hand or eye, or a bad round from the factory that blows up a rifle (very rare but it does happen), but it shouldn't result in an injury to someone else unless they are standing right next to them if they have followed the basic safety rules. Humans are obviously flawed in behavior, even when we know better, myself included sometimes make bad choices, unfortunately bad choices occasionally result in tragedy either for the chooser or someone else or both. As a result hunting accidents or incidents (doesn't matter to me what you call them, we all know what is meant) are going to happen, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do our best to prevent them. As hunters we have to think both about ourselves and how we hunt/act but about how others hunt/act, sort of like driving always be aware of what someone else might do. The one accident that is very common any more is tree stand falls, gravity is always there, always ready to pluck you out of a tree, you have to "win" every time, gravity only needs to win once.
The second incident the victim actually was the primary person to "blame", while understandable to cover yourself with a tarp to keep out of the rain, simply placing an orange vest over the top of his head (on top of the tarp) would possibly have prevented it (been there and done that one) an extra few seconds of effort is worth it, especially if it saves my butt. If the tarp was suspended over his head and simply blocked the shooters sight of him, then honestly I don't know what other reasonable action he could have taken. As an Instructor I get to read the annual reports of the accidents occasionally and essentially you don't see any that couldn't be prevented by the basic safety rules, the good old 10 commandments of firearms safety. There are the occasional oddball happenstances such as true firearm malfunctions (say an AR fires out of battery and injures the shooters hand or eye, or a bad round from the factory that blows up a rifle (very rare but it does happen), but it shouldn't result in an injury to someone else unless they are standing right next to them if they have followed the basic safety rules. Humans are obviously flawed in behavior, even when we know better, myself included sometimes make bad choices, unfortunately bad choices occasionally result in tragedy either for the chooser or someone else or both. As a result hunting accidents or incidents (doesn't matter to me what you call them, we all know what is meant) are going to happen, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do our best to prevent them. As hunters we have to think both about ourselves and how we hunt/act but about how others hunt/act, sort of like driving always be aware of what someone else might do. The one accident that is very common any more is tree stand falls, gravity is always there, always ready to pluck you out of a tree, you have to "win" every time, gravity only needs to win once.
I want to try hunting but I decide not to; i simply can't trust the other guys. Almost all the hunters I've talked to walk around the woods with a round in the chamber. I ask them why. It is because they are afraid to miss out a deer. They routinely walk around for days in frustration and they are eager to shoot. If they can't wait a moment or two to chamber a round I doubt they will spend much time to survey the backdrop before they fire. No thank you. I am too afraid to have my butt shot off by their .30-06, even they feel terribly sorry afterwards.
-TL
-TL
Almost all the hunters I've talked to walk around the woods with a round in the chamber. I ask them why. It is because they are afraid to miss out a deer. They routinely walk around for days in frustration and they are eager to shoot. If they can't wait a moment or two to chamber a round I doubt they will spend much time to survey the backdrop before they fire. No thank you.[/QUOTE
If you are walking around in very open territory (think mountain west) then yes you can easily get by with not having a round chambered. Do that in the south and you'll not be going home with venison. The distances are just too short to quietly chamber a round. The deer will hear you and be gone before you finish chambering.
Hmm... I keep hearing they brag about bagging a deer 500 yd or even 1000 yd out. It doesn't sound very close to me. With the help of finger of my non-firing hand I can chamber a round gingerly and quitely.
Well, what do I know? I have never been there, and I don't want to go there, unless I am hungry enough.
-TL
Well, what do I know? I have never been there, and I don't want to go there, unless I am hungry enough.
-TL
Just because you hear it doesn't mean it's trueHmm... I keep hearing they brag about bagging a deer 500 yd or even 1000 yd out
Reality is most deer are killed under 100 yds.
There's no danger in having a round chambered as long as you are careful
Not having a chambered round is safer than having one. But that's not the point. When you have a woods-ful of people so eager to shoot at a moment's notice, can't even wait to chamber the round, that is the real danger. I doubt they spend much time to survey before they pull the trigger.
If their hunting stories are mostly bovine excrement, I don't know what to believe. Maybe they don't really chase the deer's with chambered rifles after all.
-TL
If their hunting stories are mostly bovine excrement, I don't know what to believe. Maybe they don't really chase the deer's with chambered rifles after all.
-TL
Tangolima, sometimes a group of hunters talking will begin to sound like a group of ex-military to an "non group member", if you listened to everything they said you would think they were all Special Forces or snipers. While there are folks who pretend to be hunters and act exactly like what you describe they are certainly the minority. Find a good hunting mentor and give it a try if you have a desire to. Certainly nothing wrong with not wanting to hunt, and being content with target shooting etc. Simply different hobbies.