Pay attention to what is around and behind your target!!!

My dad tried to argue with me that 200 yards of timber wasn't a good backstop for my .260 bullet. I still should've taken that shot. Would've been the first deer i'd killed at 300 yards.

Shame something like that happened. Hope everything goes alright for him.
 
Originally posted byMosin-Marauder:

My dad tried to argue with me that 200 yards of timber wasn't a good backstop for my .260 bullet. I still should've taken that shot. Would've been the first deer i'd killed at 300 yards.

It would have been the first deer you attempted to kill @ 300 yards. Nuttin' is dead till it's layin on the ground and it's chest not moving. As for your dad and whether or not there was enough backstop......I'd go with what you dad said.
 
One in his group of dove hunters was trying to shoot a low flying dove, and swept several people before finally shooting my buddy... he feels awful, and i'm sure he'll pay better attention next time.. but crap!

"Swing through" hunting injuries are probably the most common sort of wounding/deaths for upland bird hunting party members.
 
Mosin, your Dad was right. Pay attention.

The only thing dumber than a 14-year old is a 15-year old, and progressing thusly to somewhere around 22 years old.
 
You guys talking about quail hunting reminded me of something. If you watch the Youtube videos of the quail hunting plantations in GA, you'll see that they have the safety thing worked out to a science.

Dogs get on point and all hunters stay behind them until the guide tells them to approach. 2 hunters at a time get to shoot at a covey, one on either side of the pointing dogs. Guide tells them to load their guns only after they start approaching the dogs (most use SxSs or O/Us so the guns are actually loaded but broken open). When the hunters get in front of the guide, the dogs are told to flush the covey and only those two hunters get shots.

Shooting anyone under these conditions would be difficult. Granted, these are very controlled conditions for a hunt but it does illustrate how you can hunt upland birds safely.
 
I still fail so see how 200 yards of thick timber (THICK, as in, like Oaks, spruces, pines and very closely lumped together 200 yards when there isn't a house for 2 miles) is not a good backstop. A .260 V-Max hasn't ever penetrated that much timber. Even if I missed. Had the deer been on open terrain I wouldn't have taken the shot. You guys...
 
Just a friendly reminder. One of my buddies was just shot by a 12 gauge birdshot load from about 20 yards away- apparently one in his group doesn't know how to follow the gun safety tenants. God was watching out for this man, as he will be ok... but after major surgery, knicked intestines, hole in his lung and liver, not to mention birdshot lodged throughout his body including his eye and neck I felt the need to remind everybody to pay attention!!!

One in his group of dove hunters was trying to shoot a low flying dove, and swept several people before finally shooting my buddy... he feels awful, and i'm sure he'll pay better attention next time.. but crap!


I certainly wish your buddy a speedy and full recovery, I always hate to hear of these things.

That being said I'm surprised that more people are not shot during dove season.
The reason I say this is, I live by a Missouri Conservation area where they plant and groom the sunflower fields to bait in the birds which in turn bait in the shooters.

Killing fields is what I call them, it sure is not hunting, all you need is a 5 gallon bucket to plop your butt on, a few boxes of shells and a shotgun to start banging away with, no hunting to it.

On September 1st with all the traffic and swarms of people from the cities you would think it's Black Friday at Walmart around my area.

I've also had the pleasure to meet some of the idiots that come out to the killing fields and believe me I've seen some real Dandies.

Now I have nothing against hunting as a matter of fact I've done a lot of dove hunting, that was back when you had to scout and find good places to hunt, places you did not have to worry about some idiot shooting you.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 
Originally posted by Mosin-Marauder:

I still fail so see how 200 yards of thick timber (THICK, as in, like Oaks, spruces, pines and very closely lumped together 200 yards when there isn't a house for 2 miles) is not a good backstop. A .260 V-Max hasn't ever penetrated that much timber. Even if I missed. Had the deer been on open terrain I wouldn't have taken the shot. You guys..


M-M.....I've got mud on hunting coats that's older than you. I always get a kick outta young hunters/shooters that are not yet old enough to drive a car, that claim to have more knowledge of guns and hunting than folks that have been doing it for half a century. It's bad enough that you doubt the knowledge/advice of folks three times your age, but you also doubt your dad's, and would error on the side that a kill is more important than being safe. You've got a long way to go son.......
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Mosin-Marauder:

I still fail so see how 200 yards of thick timber (THICK, as in, like Oaks, spruces, pines and very closely lumped together 200 yards when there isn't a house for 2 miles) is not a good backstop. A .260 V-Max hasn't ever penetrated that much timber. Even if I missed. Had the deer been on open terrain I wouldn't have taken the shot. You guys..


buck460XVR
M-M.....I've got mud on hunting coats that's older than you. I always get a kick outta young hunters/shooters that are not yet old enough to drive a car, that claim to have more knowledge of guns and hunting than folks that have been doing it for half a century. It's bad enough that you doubt the knowledge/advice of folks three times your age, but you also doubt your dad's, and would error on the side that a kill is more important than being safe. You've got a long way to go son.......

Yeah that right there. Heck I am almost 39 and there is still stuff I am learning from people.

On the other side of that coin.....not knowing the full set up....If there is a deer out there that is 150 yards out and I can see nothing but trees behind it and I know there aren't any houses just beyond those trees that is a safe shot. Again I don't know the circumstances behind this shot and why his father said it wasn't safe, guessing he had his reasons.

If his only reason was that there were only trees/woods behind the shot....then 90% of my shots on deer shouldn't have been taken. I have shot at deer out in fields before and the only thing behind them was woods.
 
I have google earthed the area where I hunted, there is not another house within 2 miles of where the shot was (to be) taken. The woods are 400 yards x 1200 yards in the thickest area. around 250 x 1200 where the deer was. That is a safe shot. No doubt about it. My dad has killed deer in this area and I killed my first one in the same area. I'll have to ask him about why he thought it was a safe shot.
 
Would 200 yards of thick timber have stopped the bullet, yep. Was there any other hunters, deer, dogs, cows, horses just inside the trees that you couldn't see, maybe. In the end your dad made the decision and you listened to him, job well done. Your dad decided that safety outweighs a deer, that in itself is a very very valuable lesson. No deer is worth taking a risk for. I have let deer walk because of the background not being to my liking, have had to pass on a LOT of doves that were too low or the background too close to a house or parked car etc, have laughed at ourselves and fellow hunters when a pheasant got up between us and flew away with neither shooting at it becasue we each though it was closer to the other. Never regretted any of those decisions. I have also always take my own vehicle to groups hunts/shoots because I have left them when things got "iffy" such as beer cans came out of their buckets, never never trade safety for a chance at a game shot. You have to be right EVERY single time, fate only has to get lucky one to have someone injured or killed, and more often than not the shooter knows the victim as it is one of their friends, family or hunting group when an accident happens. A few years ago I attended the funeral of an acquaintence that I had known since he was a little kid, hunted with him twice, thinking maybe the first time was a fluke, second time sealed the deal that he and his friends were way more interested in killing stuff than safety. He ended up getting shot in a duck hunting accident in a small boat, shotgun load to the back, way back in the marsh area, took him a while to die, his friend/hunting buddy will forever carry that memory with him regardless of whether or not he hunts or shoot again, and so do his mother, father, sister, and brother. Its not worth it to take chances. I am now stepping down off of my Hunter Ed Instructor soapbox.
 
Would 200 yards of thick timber have stopped the bullet, yep. Was there any other hunters, deer, dogs, cows, horses just inside the trees that you couldn't see, maybe. In the end your dad made the decision and you listened to him, job well done.
I think thats what alot of people are missing out on. I didn't take the shot. Were there other hunters dogs, cows horses just inside the trees? No. This is land we own that is extremely secluded. No other hunters, no livestock, no dogs. Thanks for understanding panfisher.
 
Originally posted by Mosin-Marauder:

I'll have to ask him about why he thought it was a safe shot.

You should...but I thought he told you it was unsafe?

While I applaud you for following your dad's advice M-M, my admonishment was the fact that you inferred your dad was wrong and you were right, and we were wrong for telling you to heed his advice....i.e., you knowledge is greater than your dad's on gun safety and our advice to follow that advice was wrong. 'cmon you guys.......


There may have been other reasons your dad told you not to take the shot. Have you practiced regularly @ 300 yards with your rifle and become proficient? If you have, does you dad know that? Or did maybe he think your proficiency @ 300 yards is lacking and was not thinking as much about what was behind the deer as he was about wounding and losing that deer. Part of going from a shooter of deer to a hunter of deer is knowing when and when not to shoot. I believe your dad may be raising you to be a hunter and not a shooter. If you do not know the difference between the two, ask your dad.
 
Oops! I meant unsafe. My bad.

I don't really do the deer hunting thing anymore. I like rabbit hunting and coyote hunting. IIt's real fun when you can just walk out on your back porch and pop a rabbit at 25 yards with the Mosin.

I do think of myself more a shooter than a hunter, though
 
There is absolutely nothing wrong with either a "Shooter" or a "Hunter" or both. My wife will happily tell you she is a deer shooter. Her hunt consists of walking about 200 yards or so from the house and sitting in her box blind, and waiting for a deer to come out. She has no interest in stalking through the woods, but will spend all but a couple hours for potty break, quick lunch and maybe a nap, in the blind. There were many decisions my father made when I was young that I didn't agree with at the time, now looking back at my 17 year old son and 21 year old daughter, I realize that he was probably more lenient that I was with them. It may well have been that it was a 300 yard shot and he didn't think you were ready, missing or barely hitting a target at that range, no big deal, gut shooting or hitting a deer in the leg yeah thats a big deal. I still say you did just fine whether or not you agree with his decision or not, you listened to someone with more experience and wisdom, way too many younger folks today won't do that. (and more than a few of us older ones who don't take good advice either).
 
Originally posted by Panfisher:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with either a "Shooter" or a "Hunter" or both. My wife will happily tell you she is a deer shooter. Her hunt consists of walking about 200 yards or so from the house and sitting in her box blind, and waiting for a deer to come out. She has no interest in stalking through the woods, but will spend all but a couple hours for potty break, quick lunch and maybe a nap, in the blind.

Me thinks Panfisher, you do not give your wife enough credit. Being a Stalker of deer is a step up from a hunter. :D

To me, in this context, the difference between a shooter and a hunter is that a shooter will take any shot presented, marginal or perfect, without hesitation. Where the hunter may wait until a better shot presents itself or not take the shot at all. Where the shooter will shoot at the first deer that presents itself in the field, the hunter may wait and see if there is a second deer coming and if it is, is it bigger/better than the first and does it offer a better shot. When a shooter wounds and loses a deer, they think, NBD, it happens and they go on as before, and continues to try and get their deer. When a hunter wounds and loses a deer they think, I screwed up, what can I do to prevent that from happening again. They may also consider the deer wounded and lost as their animal and be done. A shooter having their child beside them in the blind will shoot their deer first and then try and get the child a shot. The hunter will not even consider shooting till their child has killed their animal.
 
Oh I give her credit, she will see more deer from her stand than I ever did when I hunted there, why, simple she spends a lot more time in it than I did. Maybe I should list her as a Deer Killer, she likes to "hunt" them, but more and more I have seen her sit for a couple hours watching a doe and fawn just piddling around, or tell me about the spike that came by or the turkeys or coyotes etc. She always gets a deer or two, and since I don't hunt them near like I used to it works out. I keep her stand and equipment in top shape, keep her in reloads and take her to the range anytime she wants to go, retrieve and process her deer and in return, well you can use you imagination, it always works out well for me. :D When I used to hunt deer a lot I was into the stalking thing, nothing better than a soft quiet rainy day during the week, nobody else hunting and it was me vs. the deer in the woods, I lost a LOT of rounds but won more than a few, anymore I like to shoot more than hunt. Still hunt some but as long as she is enjoying is as much as she is, she is the primary hunter. Besides I get to help with a special hunt not far away doing tracking, recovery, occasional guiding and processing so I stil get my fill of blood and guts so I don't feel too city-fied. I have been privelidged to be next to my wife when she killed her first deer, next to my son when he shot his (two years in a row), and with my daughter who didn't want to shoot but may have enjoyed watching me take a doe with my ML more than taking one herself, after the shot and cloud of white smoke cleared she said "that was the coolest thing I've ever seen". Hard to make a dad any happier than when your kids/spouse etc. are loving life.
 
Agreed, not a big hunter myself but you can bet your behind if I go hunting it will not be in a group!!!

I've been swept actually on the same property by another idiot trying to shoot a bird with his .22 as it flew past. Good reminder why I only shoot with people I trust!!!
 
I don't know why it's so hard to understand that when hunting with other people, everybody is supposed to keep an eye out for what the others are doing. A walking hunt for quail or deer is not really different from a military skirmish line. Maintain line and distance. Know where the other hunters are located. Realize that if your shooting zone is from 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock, you won't hit a buddy when a bird takes off.

Cheney? The "shootee" contributed by not singing out, letting Cheney know of his presence. Sure, Cheney screwed up, but adrenalin and tunnel vision happen to all of us.

Remember that a moving target means that the background is constantly changing.
 
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