Pathetic: Where is our government?

Status
Not open for further replies.
A plague on the armchair philosophers and haters. Despite the actions of some, innocent folk have been hurt and are suffering. We donated clothes and other items to the San Antonio relief effort this morning and we have given money to appropriate agencies.

It's very simple for me. If I and my family can help a fellow American, we will.

I don't give a crap if the war is stupid or Bush is stupid or the people are in New Orleans are stupid. Sort that out later. Save lives now.
 
Eghad #31

To promote the general welfare does not mean PROVIDE general welfare.

Eghad #34

Some things are simply beyond human capacity to "be prepared" for. Try as I might and despite my best efforts, I have always had to go to the hardware store at least three times for every project.

New Orleans has had a couple hundred years to prepare the levies and they have had many different storms with many different results. It is not reasonable to expect them to be prepared for every possible contingency.

The job is just too big!!

People simply make mistakes... like staying to ride out the storm and finding out it was a whole lot more than a storm.

#38

The law is meant to provide checks and balances between powerful leaders and the seats of power. Thus the States are responsible for all that happens inside the state. The federal government cannot legally "take over" and run the program.
 
NO-buses.jpg
 
"Drawing on the Virginia Plan and also Sherman's motion, this ``general welfare'' clause then went to the Committee on Unfinished Parts, on August 31. That Committee moved the ``general welfare'' clause to the first clause, thus providing that the legislature could lay taxes, duties and impost ``to pay the debts and provide for the common defence & general welfare, of the U.S.''

FDR: ``We of the Republic sensed the truth that democratic government has innate capacity to protect its people against disasters once considered inevitable, to solve problems once considered unsolvable.... We refused to leave the problems of our common welfare to be solved by the winds of chance and the hurricanes of disaster....
``This year marks the one hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the Constitutional Convention which made us a nation. At that Convention our forefathers found the way out of the chaos which followed the Revolutionary War; they created a strong government with powers of united action sufficient then and now to solve problems utterly beyond individual or local solution. A century and a half ago they established the Federal Government in order to promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty to the American people.
``Today we invoke those same powers of government to achieve the same objectives.''

Alexander Hamilton:``The terms `general Welfare' were doubtless intended to signify more than was expressed or imported in those which Preceded; otherwise, numerous exigencies incident to the affairs of a nation would have been left without a provision. The phrase is as comprehensive as any that could have been used; because it was not fit that the constitutional authority of the Union to appropriate its revenues should have been restricted within narrower limit than the `General Welfare' and because this necessarily embraces a vast variety of particulars, which are susceptible neither of specification or of definition.''

Main Entry: ex·i·gen·cy
Pronunciation: 'ek-s&-j&n(t)-sE, ig-'zi-j&n(t)-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
1 : that which is required in a particular situation -- usually used in plural
2 a : the quality or state of being exigent b : a state of affairs that makes urgent demands <a leader must act in any sudden exigency>
 
Eghad, why don't you start a new thread on the constitutional powers of the federal government to intervene in state affairs.
 
"This was a failure on all the local, state, and fed. levels." Read this, many times on many threads on many forums.

One could calmly shrug all of this criticism off and say, "No plan is perfect." The Marine in me keeps hollering, "Have a plan. Have a backup plan, as the first one generally won't work."

What I have thought is that this shows that for all the tax money that was spent on FEMA, HS, state and local preparedness agencies.... No one had really considered the implications of a real, bonified, honest to goodness disaster.

In Mississippi, we do not find the lawlessness that we see in NOLA. The first thing that was done, was to declare a state of emergency and declare that looters would be shot on sight. The rule of law was maintained... By Force of Arms. People were assigned various roles and cleanup is now proceeding a-pace.

In contrast is NOLA. A city that was protected by 50+ year old levies that everyone knew could not withstand the fury of full frontal assault by mother nature... Yet no real plan was in place. Once the storm crippled communications and transportation, disarray and anarchy prevailed.

There are lessons to be learned here. As I view the various agencies tasked with the responsibility to respond to this magnitude of disaster, I don't feel very hopefull, should our country actually be hit with another terrorist attack... Whether it be an actual nuke or a dirty bomb. And tactically, now would be the time to strike. While focus is on NOLA, such an attack would literally cripple this country (see update below).

I can only hope that this is the reason for so many delays. Because otherwise....

Yet even this, does not account for the many observed failures. There are hard questions that need to be asked. On all levels: Local; State and Federal. Answers will not, I believe, be forthcoming anytime soon.

UPDATE: Shortley after writing this, it occurred to me that the contingency of a terrorist attack my have been much more real than I gave credit. It was obvious in the first few hours just how bad the situation was and the magnitude of the task ahead.

Our son (career Marine), who is currently TAD (he is teaching some kind of advanced MOUT tactics to various units of all the services) to March AFB calls every weekend. When he called today, I asked point blank if his unit or the base had been on alert shortly before or after the hurricane hit the coast. His response was that he could not talk about it.

Perhaps it was just that contingency (terrorism) that slowed the Federal response. Perhaps. OpSec is never discussed with the civilian population. At the moment, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to just that scenario.
 
Perhaps the failure was in expecting government to do what private enterprise has done for the past 6000 years. Sometimes the government needs to back away from blame for peoples choices.

Warnings? Network TV followed this storm since before it crossed Florida. Not as interesting as the sports or lottery numbers but it was on TV. I knew the storm would be a bad one two days before it hit and I live 300 miles from the coast.

Transportation? Well, people I know who were in the storm area and didn't have cars got rides, carpooled or hitchiked. I have friends and kinfolk scattered from Georgia to Texas by this storm and as far as I know they all got out. Of course they are not third generation welfare recipients with "the government will care for us" mentality. Also, how many people do you think would have passed up a mother with a baby hitchiking out of the city?

Drinking water? Everybody I know on the coast fills up their bathtub or all the pots and pans with drinking water before hurricanes. But then they are not third generation welfare recipients.

Food? Well food stamps will buy canned beans or they will buy frozen TV dinners and ice cream. It is the buyers choice.
 
Well food stamps will buy...frozen TV dinners and ice cream.
Click to expand...
are you serious? first thing tuesday morning I'm filling out an application...





seriously though, I agree. I do feel bad for the people that had no place to go or no way of getting there. there are people in poverty that do not have the welfare mentality, they just get stuck with no way out (the 17 year old girl that has to drop out to work two full time jobs supporting her four younger siblings....oh, it does happen). I also don't feel bad for people that can rescue themselves but wait for help instead. Yes, wade through 12 miles of toxic waste because you're still healthy and able to and human being evolved to this point because we were smart enough and strong enough to survive. Save the helicoptors for the elderly, the children, and the injured.
 
I live in Los Angeles. This city has a riot about every 30 years. If a major earthquake leveled L.A. tomorrow, you would see the same behavior (looting, raping, burning, etc.) in some areas of L.A. namely, the ghetto parts. The rest of city would be too busy helping each other to survive. My point is this: A large portion of NO is ghetto. Many (not all) of the people who live there live a ghetto lifestyle. That is to say "Screw eveyone else, I'm lookin' out for me." Let's be honest. A lot of those people don't exactly subscribe to the Judeo-Christian philosophy of "love thy neighbor". So when the S**t hits the fan, many of these people do what comes natural. CRIME. NO has a horrible crime rate. This disaster just intensifies it. No one should be suprised by this behavior. The same thing would and will happen in any major American inner city.

I don't recall in my history classes reading about wide scale looting and raping during the depression. While I'm sure there were isolated acts, our people as a whole didn't use it as an excuse to murder one another. The true charachter of a man is known when he is tested and under duress. Obviously, the citizens of NO don't pass the test.
 
My sentiments exactly redworm, I keep hearing that these people were to poor or infirm to get out. Yet time after time I see women bemoaning there situation who have beautifully dyed hair. Now I've checked with mrs. Ruger, and she assures me that these hairdos aint cheap. Also consider that we keep seeing able bodied young men sitting and waiting to be rescued, instead of rescuing people themselves. I believe it shows poorly for us as a nation. It appears to me that the nanny state has won, there simply is not much self reliance in this country anymore. I do have one Question though. I saw a place where there were like 4 or 5 houses generally intact, and on dry ground, with people in them. Why cant they drop a generator and some supplies to these folks s they wont be in such a desperate situation? just wondered.
 
The flagrant rancor and the subsurface bigotry being shown here simply takes my breath away.

Yes, 1/4 of New Orleans residents live below poverty.
Yes, too many are on Welfare for my tastes and many of those are "third generation welfare".
Yes, a high percentage of those residents are black.
And, yes, everyone down there speaks funny, with that lazy Luziana drawl.

But, they're MY fellow citizens, even if not yours. The people that so many condemn an entire city to hell for; the "refugees"; the "riff-raff".....these also included a couple (just a couple) hard working dishwashers, waiters and cleaning staff, working for minimum wage and doing the best they could to raise their children; subsistence level fishermen; menial laborers who's job it was to secure the homes and businesses of their wealthy employers; small business owners who had worked their entire lives to make their kids lives better; elderly and infirmed Americans without the understanding or wherewithal to get out; hotel workers who stayed because tourists couldn't get out; families of cops and firefighters who chose to wait, too long, for Daddy to get home. In fact, I'd bet we've seen a few people down there that probably look a whole lot like the parents that raised people like Condi Rice and the entire generation of our parents or grandparents, raised by "unwashed masses" of immigrants in times when you couldn't buy a job.

This entire board might choose to condemn all these AMERICANS straight to the hell they're living thru. It wouldn't matter to my decision one bit: As soon as I close this thread, I'm going to thoroughly wash my hands, because I can't believe what they've just been dipped in. The entire world has access to these forums....some of you honestly make me ashamed to wear the badge "American" at times like this.
Rich
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top