Pager Pal vs. Smart Carry

Question for Kahr owners

I can't compare my PM 40 to any Glock since I am not a Glock owner but I can say that my Kahr has lived up to my expectations for a great concealed carry gun. It is small, thin, light and comfortable. Hides very well in a Smartcarry holster. The first three hundred rounds went through it without a glitch and recoil is not extreme. But it is after all a 40 caliber pistol so recoil is what it should be. That said, it's not hard to shoot and accuracy is good for its small size. In summary, it's hard hitting, easy to conceal, lightweight and shootable. That equals a good carry gun in my opinion.
 
I have a Pager Pal and Smartcarry, and don't like either one of them.

I think I'm going to have to look at a tuckable holster for my Glock 19. I'm also considering a Kel-Tec .380 to just stick in the pocket.
 
I can't pocket carry in my front pocket either. Same reasons. But I can pocket carry a P3AT in my back right pocketr all day and it makes NO print. Inside a Uncle Mikes pocket holster it looks like nothing at all. I seriously can't tell its there unless I feel for it.

OT: I had a Browning BDM. Shot well. I think one of the reasons it never took off was a lack of higher than 10 rnd mags. It came about right before the ban. The 10 rnd mags came standard and others were VERY high if you could find them.
 
I've never tried rear pocket carry. With the flat auto I could see that working.

I've been playing around with the Smart carry and my Bersa 9mm auto today ...

I have tried it strong side over my thigh and this printed fairly often. Down the middle printed as well. I have finally gotten around to putting it cross draw about the thigh (maybe 10:00 or so) and it does work much better. Actually puts the gun in about the same position as the pager pal, but a little lower down. Seems to conceal pretty good. Better than the PP, and I'm thinking just because I can control the angle and where it's at more.

For safety's sake, of course, I'm carrying the weapon with no round in the chamber and the loaded magazine left at home in my safe. If I need to use it, I'll call the wife and have her bring the magazine to me.

Just kidding on that last. I carry my bersa with one in the pipe and the safety on (which means hammer down, but it has a hammer block). Will everyone find this acceptable, or will I now get flamed for not carrying it safety off and cocked?

I do only carry it with the standard 10 round mag (11 total), but as soon as the 13 round mags are available I'll be the first to buy one.
 
A lot of people are flaming because of my single empty chamber, but I can get that gun out and get a round off in that manner long before I can fire from a fully loaded gun in an ankle holster. I know people who use them regularly, but not for me.
Click to expand...

Considering there are people with autoloaders who carry without a round chambered for the same concerns you have, you're not really that crazy. At least you can chamber around in the revolver with one hand. Without a round chambered in an autoloader you just about need two hands to use it. Your other hand could be busy.
 
smartcarry

I carry at 12 oclock. and it does not matter what color my pants are. Just go back to the site with the pictures and save them to your computer and do a zoom on it. You will not see the gun. I carry the SC just like you are suppose to do. I carry with it up to 18 hours a day with no discomfort at all.


steve :eek:
 
Stolivar ...
You're right ... although the picture pixilated a lot, I couldn't make the gun out. I have some oversized pants from pre-Atkins that I could hide a shotgun in, but maybe I have an inbetween size or two as well.

Sadly ... my wife is now suspicious of me, as she caught me downloading and zooming in to pictures of strange men on the internet. First time I've ever done that! :eek:

I'll keep working with the SC.

I was also looking at your Mil Pro .45 stats. It's actually a tiny bit smaller than my Bersa Thunder 9. Maybe I should have gotten the Mil Pro 9 instead, as the 1/4 inch less or so actually would make a difference.

Thanks again for the help.

Wayne ...
That's kind of how I feel. I realize that only 4 rounds is a problem, but I don't plan on getting into a gun fight with a unit of the Hell's Angels; I need sufficient force to turn the tables in my favor and disengage. And 4 even roughly placed .38 +p hydrashocks will do that.

At the very least ... no one will be able to say I was a victim.

Of course I'd rather have the 11 rounds of my auto, but if it's not practical the 4 will be sufficient.
 
Thank you

Garand, thank you for a very informative post. I am sorry that some in this group felt the need to be rude. Take comfort in the fact that you probably saved their dog from being kicked or their wife from being punched. I think I followed your logic and I respect your ideas.
Thank you again.
John
Charlotte, NC
 
Thanks John!

I knew many people would flame me, and I'm fine with that. Much of the flaming here is at least partially in fun, and I enjoy (and learn from) a good debate. My particular choice about the revolver capacity is not the norm to say the least, but hopefully many of the people who are rolling their eyes up at me can at least understand my logic for it.

Overall I learn an awful lot from this forum and y'all.
 
My own view concerning the empty cylinder is that it is unnecessary ...

For me.

However, a significant factor in carrying a weapon is the matter of confidence. Having confidence in ones choices and practices counts a great deal.
 
Another option

I had a cheap Uncle Mike's IWB holster laying aound, so I clipped it on a spare belt and wore it like a smart carry under my pants. The leather belt is pretty stable, and it didn't ride up. The carry mode has it's pro's and con's as stated. This is a cheap easy way to see if it's for you.
 
Garand Illusion,

I don't think it has been mentioned, but you may consider one of those holsters that attaches to the belt, but allows you to tuck your shirt over it. I tried one for a Ruger SP101, but didn't like the angle and couldn't adjust it easily.

The following are only two of the many options available:

http://www.holster.com/desantisholster/n91.html

http://www.highnoonholsters.com/_Ma...ichael_King/_Roy_Huntington_/tim_schmidt.html


BTW, my typical off-duty/backup carry is strong side pocket (NAA Guardian in .32acp). I occasionally carry a NAA Mini-revolver in .22 mag in a Thunderwear holster (competitor to Smartcarry), but would be uncomfortable carrying a much larger gun with this method much of the time.
 
Rear pocket for me 99% if the time...KT 32orP3at prints like a wallet in the rear pocket and is resonably fast..

I didnt like carrying front pocket until I redesigned the pocket holster that would become the Goblin...Doesnt print and is fairly quick and works for several different designs...
 
bad news

That Kangaroo didn't work out too well.
it was very comfortable, most comfy holster i ever tried. It is made of cotton, sothat makes sense.
So I put it on and slid in a Glock 17, put on a polo shirt and went to church.
There was a little adjusting to remind myself to keep my arm down all the way and not 'flared out'- but there was still no way to adjust it to get the last inch of the grip hidden. I could always see it tenting up the side under my left pec. I knew that very few would realize what it was, but i was very self-conscious of people saying 'what is that guy wearing'?
So after about 5 minutes i went to the restroom and put it in my beltpouch.
Then...
Almost the end of a 1 hour service and I don't know what exactly happened: did an upturned piece of velcro catch on the inside of my shirt? maybe. Anyway, all of a sudden the 'over-the-shoulder' strap let loose and the thing drifted down towards my waist. Now, remember the kangaroo was EMPTY at this time! If it had had the pistol in it, it would have PLUMMETED down to my waist and my shirt would have caught it like a safety net- definitely printing and me having to excuse myself rather abruptly holding my side, and acting cool about it.
So it didn't work out.

The Hoffner's shirt tucker (which is almost exactly like the C-TAC) still is my best bet. BUT>>>

The kangaroo did give me an idea for one that might work. I will have to find a sturdy material and have my wife sew me up something. But when its done I'll post pics of it and a review.

C-
 
I have tried both a PagerPal and a Smartcarry for my S&W 642 and Taurus 850, and have found the best, most comfortable way for me to carry them is just putting them in my front pocket in an Uncle Mike's pocket holster.
 
I think I may have it

OK, I am now getting somewhere!

First, my idea: it is to make a very tight sash, a wide piece of semi-elastic, thick cloth that contours my right shoulder/trapezius area and goes down across by chest/back t my left armpit, riding high. BTW: i a right handed.

Then a second piece of strong elastic stitched to the 'armpit area' of the sash to make a pocket maybe open at the bottom, maybe not. Into this can be slid a pistol or even a kydex holster (homemade) held in by the tightness of the elastic and a piece of velro perhaps.

I still think that idea will work. But...

Somebody beat me to the basic idea: Kramer Leather! Although not as thick and tough, Kramer makes a mesh t-shirt holster called the Confidant. It comes in full and a discontinued but still for sale 3/4 length: http://www.kramerleather.com/productDetail.cfm?productID=64&categoryID=21

I read advice that for keeping it tight to buy a size smaller than you measure yourself to be. So I tried it.

With the Glock 17 it works very well. I wore it all day with my wife and a friend with a t-shirt over it. With some creative use of the velcro strap, I positioned it so that the grip poked out from under my armpit minimally to both the front and the rear. At the end of the day I asked my wife if she could tell which part of the day i had a pistol or not. She never noticed.
Of course, I could see the grip print, but it was small- small enough that my wife missed it! Cool!

At the gunshop yesterday I fooled around with a Glock 26subcompact. I would still like to do an all-day trial, but just a quick placement of the 26 in the Confidant and pulling down a t-shirt made a huge difference between it and the 17. No grip protruding from the front, not slide from the rear. Raising arm overhead was still noticeable to me, but wouldn't be to anyone elase at a quick glance anyway. It printed pretty clearly if I reached out foward and stretched my arm and shoulder out in front of me, but what did I expect? Of course it would print then.

This is NOT a fst draw or fast re-holster rig. Its darn slow. But it is the most concealeable upper body, summer clothing compatible, non-crotch-endangering method commercially made so far that I have tried.

I am really looking foward to giving it an all-day trial with a smaller pistol.

BTW: anyone shot the G26? I think that in 9mm it should be OK. But I am still wondering if the lack of pinky-grip will affect my follow-up. Makes me hesitant to spend the $$.

C-
 
My carry options

Shirt untucked with belt: I carry either a 5" Glock, 4" XD, or 3" XD all in .40 caliber depending on the length of my shirt and the nature of my trip and my mood and how much sitting I'm going to be doing (e.g. the more sitting the shorter the barrel). I carry any of these in a very comfortable leather belt rig, made by Biachi or Ross or Galco or one of those... I forget which, but they are very common and about $30.

Shirt tucked in is a more tricky situation: I have an excellent Galco Skyops IWB holster that is comfortable and seems to fit and conceal well without printing. Honestly, the guns I like to carry are too wide for IWB carry on a regular basis for my 6'1" wide shoulders and narrow waistband frame. The guns dig into my side. I think a smaller and more narrow gun like a Kahr would be more comfortable. The holster is great, and the "clips" on the belt are barely noticable. My main complaint is that the clips only work for a narrow dress belt and not for the wider casual belts.

I tried an elastic shoulder rig sold by ActionDirect. It was okay, but the gun seemed to move around. I would give it a fair rating.

I would like to try a more expensive shoulder harness rig in the future. The only disadvantage is "quick draw," but I'm not sure how important that is.

I also have a Keltec P3AT .380 2nd Generation. I'd like to carry it regularly, but in firing about 100-200 rounds through it, I'm still not confident about the reliability because it jams too much. I need to work on it more. I am impressed though because that little guy is very accurate at 15'. It hits exactly where I aim. I think the jamming is caused by either its newness OR the wolf ammo. I shot some real ammo over the weekend and was pleased that it did not jam. So, I may have rounded the corner on that issue. I hope so because it's a great little light weight gun and perfect for when carrying anything else just isn't practical.

Anyway, once comfortable with the .380, I may buy an ankle holster and carry that way.
 
I could not get use to Thunderwear or Pager Pal...

I went with a pocket carry for my M36..
For this I offer the High Noon Holster...I discovered them in an ad in "Guns of the Old West" of all things.
It's different in there are no curved hooks to engage the pocket folds,
Instead, It has a outer cover (over the leather ) made of some rubber molded
nubs ( sorta like heavy duty Male Velcro )
Google.. High Noon Holsters for look see.
 
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