PA State Troopers switched to SIG for safety
- Thread starter johnelmore
- Start date
No consolation whatsoever. They can live the rest of their lives knowing they did something utterly stupid, relive it every day, and that's it.
I would never think of cleaning or even handling a firearm without obsessively and repeatedly checking the chamber...glock, or anything else.
I've often said my G26 would be the last pistol I'd sell.
I would never think of cleaning or even handling a firearm without obsessively and repeatedly checking the chamber...glock, or anything else.
I've often said my G26 would be the last pistol I'd sell.
Yeah. They can live the rest of their lives mourning the loss of somebody. But the dead person can't.
Last year, an uncle shot his nephew dead in PA with a Glock he thought was unloaded. He's doing 15 years for that. New Years Day up the road from me, a woman shoots her abusive husband (known to everybody to be a heavy handed dirtbag), and she is still sitting in jail, not able to make bail. Last year, a NYC cop accidentally let a round go while on a vertical patrol in a crime ridden housing project. I've walked those stairwells myself many times and my gun was always out. No light in stairwell and door swings open and cop lets a shot go. Ricochets of TWO walls before hitting guy and killing him. Cop found guilty of manslaughter. Looking at 8 to 15 years.
But some PA trooper kills his wife and unborn child and its "all good"? The justice in this state is a joke. That guy should have been fried. But the DA and the judges have their noses up the rear ends of an agency who spends 95% of their time writing tickets.
Last year, an uncle shot his nephew dead in PA with a Glock he thought was unloaded. He's doing 15 years for that. New Years Day up the road from me, a woman shoots her abusive husband (known to everybody to be a heavy handed dirtbag), and she is still sitting in jail, not able to make bail. Last year, a NYC cop accidentally let a round go while on a vertical patrol in a crime ridden housing project. I've walked those stairwells myself many times and my gun was always out. No light in stairwell and door swings open and cop lets a shot go. Ricochets of TWO walls before hitting guy and killing him. Cop found guilty of manslaughter. Looking at 8 to 15 years.
But some PA trooper kills his wife and unborn child and its "all good"? The justice in this state is a joke. That guy should have been fried. But the DA and the judges have their noses up the rear ends of an agency who spends 95% of their time writing tickets.
Aside from lumping an entire agency in a negative light....which I imagined rubbed you the wrong way when it happened to you back in your NYPD days, what does the above have to do with anything. If you make sure the chamber is empty there is absolutely zero chance of the gun going off. If the situation warrants you having your firearm out of the holster there better not be a safety engaged, like I said, they do not belong on carry weapons with the exception of single actions.
357 Python
New member
While I'm not a Glock fan if you keep your finger on the trigger when holstering the weapon any gun will fire. This also happened when police duty holsters started covering the trigger guard. It just goes to show that no matter the technology there will always be some people who are destined to be Darwin nominees.
I just have to respond to this...
No problem what so ever.
Yep. You've checked the chamber and its EMPTY. The cocked hammer means NOTHING.
It can be done, and easily with a bushing wrench. It can be done with your bare hands. However, since you have checked the chamber AND IT IS EMPTY, I don't consider putting part of my hand over the muzzle of AN UNLOADED GUN to be particularly dangerous. ALSO, I have found it easiest to simply put the safety on (locking the slide in place) when removing the recoil spring plunger and barrel bushing.
And why NOT do it with the hammer cocked??? Again, the gun is unloaded (and if not, that is 100% ENTIRELY your fault!!!)
Needing to pull the trigger as part of the takedown process is not a defect! It MAY be a less than desirable feature, but its not a defect, and the people who designed it will strenuously argue that point.
Pulling the trigger, at some point, before or during the takedown process is common to a LOT of firearms, ranging from single shot bolt action .22s to SMG and machineguns. Again, if the weapon is unloaded and cleared, its not an issue. If the weapon is loaded, its the OPERATOR AT FAULT!!!! Not the weapon or its design team!
This is your opinion, and you are welcome to it. I have a much different opinion. Before you focus entirely on cases where someone was killed or injured because they "forgot to take the safety off", remember that there are also many cases where the bad guy got the gun and couldn't shoot it because the safety was on! Add in all the cases where the trigger was pulled accidently by a finger or by anything else, and the gun did not fire because the safety was on.
I think safeties belong on everything that doesn't have a DA revolver type trigger pull, or hammer that has to be manually cocked for each shot.
You may note that virtually EVERY military small arm, prior to the Glock design has a safety or a hammer, or a DA type trigger pull.
No problem what so ever.
Yep. You've checked the chamber and its EMPTY. The cocked hammer means NOTHING.
It can be done, and easily with a bushing wrench. It can be done with your bare hands. However, since you have checked the chamber AND IT IS EMPTY, I don't consider putting part of my hand over the muzzle of AN UNLOADED GUN to be particularly dangerous. ALSO, I have found it easiest to simply put the safety on (locking the slide in place) when removing the recoil spring plunger and barrel bushing.
And why NOT do it with the hammer cocked??? Again, the gun is unloaded (and if not, that is 100% ENTIRELY your fault!!!)
Needing to pull the trigger as part of the takedown process is not a defect! It MAY be a less than desirable feature, but its not a defect, and the people who designed it will strenuously argue that point.
Pulling the trigger, at some point, before or during the takedown process is common to a LOT of firearms, ranging from single shot bolt action .22s to SMG and machineguns. Again, if the weapon is unloaded and cleared, its not an issue. If the weapon is loaded, its the OPERATOR AT FAULT!!!! Not the weapon or its design team!
This is your opinion, and you are welcome to it. I have a much different opinion. Before you focus entirely on cases where someone was killed or injured because they "forgot to take the safety off", remember that there are also many cases where the bad guy got the gun and couldn't shoot it because the safety was on! Add in all the cases where the trigger was pulled accidently by a finger or by anything else, and the gun did not fire because the safety was on.
I think safeties belong on everything that doesn't have a DA revolver type trigger pull, or hammer that has to be manually cocked for each shot.
You may note that virtually EVERY military small arm, prior to the Glock design has a safety or a hammer, or a DA type trigger pull.
coyotepete
Inactive
Always sad Sig is the best
The standard Army method of handling an unloaded weapon is for the armorer to check the chamber, release the slide/bolt hold open, and PULL THE TRIGGER.
I spent 6 months at Ft Benning and it was done end of shift every day for a hundred M9's and a few M16's used at the gates.
We unloaded outside, checked our chambers, then dropped the slide and PULLED THE TRIGGER while aiming into a barrel filled with sand. In the six months there I heard rumor of one discharge doing that - active duty MP. Not the Reserves, who outnumbered them ten to one during that deployment.
Same at GTMO, the Marines had the towers around X-Ray, NO discharges handling firearms on duty, nor with the Infantry who followed on.
Weapons handling and safety checks didn't involve brandishing a firearm and pointing it at the head of a life partner who was carrying recombinant DNA matter to replicate the species.
The shooting involved is at the very least negligent, and the reaction a complete coverup.
I spent 6 months at Ft Benning and it was done end of shift every day for a hundred M9's and a few M16's used at the gates.
We unloaded outside, checked our chambers, then dropped the slide and PULLED THE TRIGGER while aiming into a barrel filled with sand. In the six months there I heard rumor of one discharge doing that - active duty MP. Not the Reserves, who outnumbered them ten to one during that deployment.
Same at GTMO, the Marines had the towers around X-Ray, NO discharges handling firearms on duty, nor with the Infantry who followed on.
Weapons handling and safety checks didn't involve brandishing a firearm and pointing it at the head of a life partner who was carrying recombinant DNA matter to replicate the species.
The shooting involved is at the very least negligent, and the reaction a complete coverup.
johnelmore
New member
I dont know about the USMC, but the Army has a very disciplined approach to making sure firearms are truly unloaded. Firearms are always checked a few times in different ways. No commander wants to be relieved because of an accident like that.
I can bet if you were the guy who failed to clear your weapon you would be held accountable with at least an article 15 and depending on the commander jail time. I remember one commander would post the article 15s right outside his office. We called it the wall of shame.
At modern police forces there is no such accountability or crazy commander hell bent on shaming you and putting you in the slammer. You have powerful unions. Thus the shift to the Sig.
I can bet if you were the guy who failed to clear your weapon you would be held accountable with at least an article 15 and depending on the commander jail time. I remember one commander would post the article 15s right outside his office. We called it the wall of shame.
At modern police forces there is no such accountability or crazy commander hell bent on shaming you and putting you in the slammer. You have powerful unions. Thus the shift to the Sig.
I used to inspect (Army) Arms rooms. ONE of the things we would do was to pull the triggers of randomly chosen rifles in their racks.
If any of them went "click" it was a gig. If more than one did, it was a serious gig.
One time, I had one go BOOM!!! (it turned out to be a blank, fortunately).
By then end of the day, the individual the rifle had been issued to was up on charges, and the unit armorer had been assigned "other duties".
Since their introduction, I have always been of the opinion that the Glock trigger "safety" is an accident waiting to happen.
Yes, it is perfectly safe, in the hands of people who are perfectly safe. Unfortunately, the majority of people aren't.
If any of them went "click" it was a gig. If more than one did, it was a serious gig.
One time, I had one go BOOM!!! (it turned out to be a blank, fortunately).
By then end of the day, the individual the rifle had been issued to was up on charges, and the unit armorer had been assigned "other duties".
Since their introduction, I have always been of the opinion that the Glock trigger "safety" is an accident waiting to happen.
Yes, it is perfectly safe, in the hands of people who are perfectly safe. Unfortunately, the majority of people aren't.
Doing LE training for nearly 30 years, I agree with the change. In all of the hours of training an officer has to do each year, only a small part involves paid firearms training. Some staff train on their own but more often it is like herding cats to get all of the training done in the required time frame. Firearms is usually one of the areas that is in compliance without disciplinary action. Glock usually sell their pistols to agencies by giving deals that no other maker will match. Sig is a fine pistol but my bet is this is more a case to show PSP did something to take political heat off them than thinking changing pistols will stop accidents. It is easier to find similar stories involving Glocks than Sigs but you would have to factor in the numbers out there to get any indicators of trends from that.
Mrgunsngear
New member
Topics like:
-Glocks are unsafe
&
-45 stopping power
are forum gold!!! I knew this would be a good thread
-Glocks are unsafe
&
-45 stopping power
are forum gold!!! I knew this would be a good thread
You don't need your finger on the trigger of your glock for it to discharge. Even though this wasn't the gun's fault, I just can't like that trigger. I guess I'm old school. I like manual safeties.
http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/f...her-holsters-can-cause-accidental-discharges/
http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/f...her-holsters-can-cause-accidental-discharges/
rightside said:
Something still has to depress the trigger, be it a finger, worn out holster, rock....whatever. Something got inside the trigger guard a set it off. And it can happen to any gun, not just a Glock. User error, be it bad trigger discipline or equipment neglect, does not make it the gun's fault, or mean it's unsafe. It means just what it is, user error.
I will concede that a weapon with a safety that is on is far less likely to have it's trigger pulled by a bad piece of leather, but safeties do fail.