ShootemDown
Moderator
dont repeatly sitting on a gun will bend the frame or doe something to it bad ?
P32 in pocket chamber a round or no?
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dont repeatly sitting on a gun will bend the frame or doe something to it bad ?
David Armstrong
Moderator
Yes. Most people don't realize just how little time it adds (if any) to the presentation.
It can, over time, but it is rare. A lot depends on just how the gun rests in that back pocket. Some pockets cause more weight to be on the gun than others.
Ohio Rusty
New member
I ALWAYS have a round in the chamber. (Speer GDHP) The only time it gets uloaded is when it is shot or cleaned. I usually just use canned air and blow the pocket lint from the P3 I carry.
How are you going to chamber a round if a knife weilding attacker jumps out and slashes one of your arm with that knife. Now you are down to one usable arm.
What happens if you get attacked by a stray dog and he is biting the arm you are trying to fend him off with?
What happens if the bad guy has a choke hold on you and you are bent over the hood of your car ...... Or the BG has you on the ground ???
If you don't keep a round in the chamber and ready to fire at all times, we'll be taking up a collection here to send to your widow and orphaned kids.
It is only common sense to keep your pistol ready to save your life and the life of your family at all times. If you couldn't get a round in the chamber and your wife or child was kidnapped, raped and murdered, you could never forgive yourself for not being ready ....
'Nuff said?
Ohio Rusty ><>
Psalms 27:1-3/Psalms 91:9-11 (AMP)
How are you going to chamber a round if a knife weilding attacker jumps out and slashes one of your arm with that knife. Now you are down to one usable arm.
What happens if you get attacked by a stray dog and he is biting the arm you are trying to fend him off with?
What happens if the bad guy has a choke hold on you and you are bent over the hood of your car ...... Or the BG has you on the ground ???
If you don't keep a round in the chamber and ready to fire at all times, we'll be taking up a collection here to send to your widow and orphaned kids.
It is only common sense to keep your pistol ready to save your life and the life of your family at all times. If you couldn't get a round in the chamber and your wife or child was kidnapped, raped and murdered, you could never forgive yourself for not being ready ....
'Nuff said?
Ohio Rusty ><>
Psalms 27:1-3/Psalms 91:9-11 (AMP)
Shadi Khalil
New member
While I always carry my pistol loaded, I can see why some people just wont. I wouldnt say that it out right defeats the purpose of carrying but I think that carrying loaded is the smartest and safest way to go. Now, I say safe but maybe in my heart of hearts I dont believe that. Case in point, I carry a sig 239 in a galco summer comfort IWB at 8 o'clock, that however is not the best postion for me to carry as far as printing goes. The gun hides best at 12 o'clock, directly over my junk. For some reason, I just cant sit comfortably with the barrel of that sig pointed directly at what lies beneath. I didnt feel that way with my Kahr and i'm fine carrying there with my 342. I think its the decocker and whole hammer down thing. I understand how it works and that its safe but my junk doesnt get that yet. On the plus side, the 8 o'clock is very comfortable, I just have to watch when I bend over.
As for the racking on the draw, After following this thread the last couple days, I decided to give it a try in with some snap caps. It proved to be allot harder than I thought it would be. I think it would take allot of practice to really get myself comfortable and proficent with that method. I guess there are four motions to my draw, all natural fluid feeling montions. Throwing in the whole racking of the slide really threw me off. I found my hand slipping off the slide a few times or not racking in hard enough. The biggest draw back I found was that I was looking down at the gun through out my draw adn when I failed to rack the slide I was practically foucsed on the gun the rather than the target. This is a big hunky 239 slide, I think the kel tec might be allot tougher.
As for the racking on the draw, After following this thread the last couple days, I decided to give it a try in with some snap caps. It proved to be allot harder than I thought it would be. I think it would take allot of practice to really get myself comfortable and proficent with that method. I guess there are four motions to my draw, all natural fluid feeling montions. Throwing in the whole racking of the slide really threw me off. I found my hand slipping off the slide a few times or not racking in hard enough. The biggest draw back I found was that I was looking down at the gun through out my draw adn when I failed to rack the slide I was practically foucsed on the gun the rather than the target. This is a big hunky 239 slide, I think the kel tec might be allot tougher.
David Armstrong
Moderator
While that is a nice thought, and certainly a well-thought out litany of terrible things that MIGHT happen, unfortunately history just doesn't seem to show these predictions of doom and disaster happening to any degree.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
What happens if the bad guy has a choke hold on you and you are bent over the hood of your car ...... Or the BG has you on the ground ???
It would be hard to draw the gun period and use it in a safe manner in those situations. That's why a touch of H2H or Defensive Knife is useful.
I do agree with the idea that the unchambered gun is a risk factor if injured.
It would be hard to draw the gun period and use it in a safe manner in those situations. That's why a touch of H2H or Defensive Knife is useful.
I do agree with the idea that the unchambered gun is a risk factor if injured.
Response to teifmen1948
Its kind of similar to basketball, you don't want to look at the ball as you dribble, you have to keep your eyes on the guy in front of you. Just because it doesn't work at first doesn't mean that it won't, somethings just take a little time.
However from where I understand that you are keeping your gun, it may be difficult simply because of the possition that your are forced to start from. You can always changes positions a bit if it helps . . . at any rate I know I don't want my junk looking down the barrel of a gun
If it could talk it might ask you to reconsider your carrying habits
Its kind of similar to basketball, you don't want to look at the ball as you dribble, you have to keep your eyes on the guy in front of you. Just because it doesn't work at first doesn't mean that it won't, somethings just take a little time.
However from where I understand that you are keeping your gun, it may be difficult simply because of the possition that your are forced to start from. You can always changes positions a bit if it helps . . . at any rate I know I don't want my junk looking down the barrel of a gun
If it could talk it might ask you to reconsider your carrying habits Shadi Khalil
New member
Aqeous,
Out of the 12 o'clock it was def. easier. Im sure with time and practice I could get better. However, I think I'll keep carrying loaded. I have enough trouble shooting straight off the line at the range, my straight draw shots always need work
Out of the 12 o'clock it was def. easier. Im sure with time and practice I could get better. However, I think I'll keep carrying loaded. I have enough trouble shooting straight off the line at the range, my straight draw shots always need work
Stevie-Ray
New member
Tell that to the people .32 ACP has killed.
That's not news, simply opinion, and telling you that carrying that 9mm is useless and .45 ACP is the bare minimum carries about as much weight.
I always carry with one in the chamber of my P32, and in the same holster as the OP's.
I have not seen yours and your reply can be taken as a cop out for Take my word for it
Again...your quote..please supply the statistics to back your assertions...
And you are a trained researcher? I just finished my thesis in research. I would be happy to look at your data....
Anecdotal data does not research make!
I have a bias...I believe that the majority of gun writers are not experts about what they write about. Some writers are, others are quite knowledgeable, and others are quite questionable.
If an individual decided to write about cancer treatment without the background he would be discounted. However a gun writer needs little or no training, little or no experience, and no real credentials to be an authority.
I am not saying you fit that mold, what I am asking, and have asked for in the past is data to back your assertions.
I hate to break this to you, but there is a substantial difference in stopping a killing.
You can kill a cape buffalo with a 22. You however may not survive the incident when he stomps you into a bloody muddy puddle.
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ShootemDown: P32 in pocket chamber a round or no?
Your P-32 will not AD in your pocket, especially in the holster you have chosen.
You are absolutely correct in thinking that you should have a round in the chamber.
The P-32 offers only two serious advantages as a CCW weapon:
1. Size & Weight
2. Absolute simplicity (no manipulation required beyond present and fire)
For these gains, you sacrifice ballistic performance, magazine capacity, sight radius, accuracy at distance, and potential feed reliability (with the .32 ACP and P-32 in particular). BTW: Mine works just fine.
That said, why inject Murphy into an already marginal equation by carrying empty chamber? Adding a self-induced requirement to load under stress is foolishness in the extreme. You would be complicating a relatively fool-proof method of defense by adding branches and sequels for failure which are based upon dangerous assumptions:
1. That you will have both time and physical ability to rack the slide.
2. That the feeding cycle will be reliable and complete, without remedial action.
3. That you have a weak hand to accomplish this action in a speedy manner.
4. That you will always be well-practiced, smooth, fast, composed, fumble-free…and lucky.
Other posters have suggested that you are statistically unlikely to need to present your civilian CCW weapon in a hurry…and that is actually true.
You are also statistically unlikely to ever need a weapon at all…but you’ve already determined to address that unlikelihood by carrying one anyway, haven’t you?
I’d certainly not hunt whitetail or game birds without one in the chamber. Why voluntarily handicap my own defense by inducing a physical interruption of my ability to employ my CCW? Why negate one of the few advantages provided by my chosen arm (P-32 = Instant Simplicity of Presentation)?
Although some organizations or populations have carried (or do carry) empty chamber … said posture was mandated by bureaucrats more concerned with mitigation of collective negligent discharges than personal efficiency in a death struggle.
Lots of stupid things are mandated in this world…including excessive taxes, draconian gun control laws, water-saver toilets, employment of FMJ-only bullets, and (occasionally) empty chamber or magazine well carry. Mandated modes of carry are less about your survival and fighting efficiency than they are about CYA for bosses and politicos. In other words…absent regulatory requirements, why handicap yourself?
Can you carry chamber empty? Of course you can. Will chamber empty CCW carry statistically suffice for most folks, for most situations, and for most of the time? Probably. Maybe. Hopefully.
As someone I admire once said: “It ain’t the odds…it’s the stakes”.
YMMV. The Usual Suspects May Fire When Ready…
Your P-32 will not AD in your pocket, especially in the holster you have chosen.
You are absolutely correct in thinking that you should have a round in the chamber.
The P-32 offers only two serious advantages as a CCW weapon:
1. Size & Weight
2. Absolute simplicity (no manipulation required beyond present and fire)
For these gains, you sacrifice ballistic performance, magazine capacity, sight radius, accuracy at distance, and potential feed reliability (with the .32 ACP and P-32 in particular). BTW: Mine works just fine.
That said, why inject Murphy into an already marginal equation by carrying empty chamber? Adding a self-induced requirement to load under stress is foolishness in the extreme. You would be complicating a relatively fool-proof method of defense by adding branches and sequels for failure which are based upon dangerous assumptions:
1. That you will have both time and physical ability to rack the slide.
2. That the feeding cycle will be reliable and complete, without remedial action.
3. That you have a weak hand to accomplish this action in a speedy manner.
4. That you will always be well-practiced, smooth, fast, composed, fumble-free…and lucky.
Other posters have suggested that you are statistically unlikely to need to present your civilian CCW weapon in a hurry…and that is actually true.
You are also statistically unlikely to ever need a weapon at all…but you’ve already determined to address that unlikelihood by carrying one anyway, haven’t you?
I’d certainly not hunt whitetail or game birds without one in the chamber. Why voluntarily handicap my own defense by inducing a physical interruption of my ability to employ my CCW? Why negate one of the few advantages provided by my chosen arm (P-32 = Instant Simplicity of Presentation)?
Although some organizations or populations have carried (or do carry) empty chamber … said posture was mandated by bureaucrats more concerned with mitigation of collective negligent discharges than personal efficiency in a death struggle.
Lots of stupid things are mandated in this world…including excessive taxes, draconian gun control laws, water-saver toilets, employment of FMJ-only bullets, and (occasionally) empty chamber or magazine well carry. Mandated modes of carry are less about your survival and fighting efficiency than they are about CYA for bosses and politicos. In other words…absent regulatory requirements, why handicap yourself?
Can you carry chamber empty? Of course you can. Will chamber empty CCW carry statistically suffice for most folks, for most situations, and for most of the time? Probably. Maybe. Hopefully.
As someone I admire once said: “It ain’t the odds…it’s the stakes”.
YMMV. The Usual Suspects May Fire When Ready…
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Shadi Khalil
New member
Well Stated.
I can totally agree with the principle of what your saying, but I also don't think SWAT tactics and training are the most useful thing in the world when it comes to self-defense. It's not so much that I think there is nothing to learn as it is that a good deal of SWAT-type training is not applicable to me defending my self and home. For example, I will never have to train with 5 of my neighbors in order to do a room by room takedown with the goal of rescuing a hostage.
As far as the .32 itself, my two cents is that it is an excellent cartridge when chambered for guns like the Kel-Tec, that are uber-small and ultra-concealable. My carry cartridge of choice is a .357 magnum, but I also have Kel-Tec in .380. I would feel equally as comfortable with a .32 loaded with silvertips. It's not a great round, but it is a useful round. I think that as long as you understand that it is not a particularly good "main" gun, and think of it as a BUG or a social gun, the utility makes itself a good deal more apparent.
If I go to walmart at night (which happens at least twice a week), the .357 goes with me. The Kel-Tec is pretty much my main truck gun, and it is also the gun that I carry in my versi=pack when I go waddle around the park, which I do during the day. It also helps that the park I walk at is about as safe as parks get. Frankly, I have more trouble with geese than I do with people.
odessastraight
New member
I always get a chuckle out of one member asking for the other to cite references or give a list of credentials to back up an opinion. It should be understood that all any of us provide is our opinions I'll ask for opinions and will certainly give mine. Take it or leave it and I'll do the same.
I maintain that to carry a .32ACP for self defence is foolish. There are much better choices with similar specifications as to size and weight of that Kel Tec .32 in at least 9mm. I also think that carry of a 9mm in a service sized handgun is foolish, but that's a different topic. I do think the 9X19 should be the minimum for a very light and flat pocket pistol.
Still, I'm a revolver guy, although that light, thin, cheap, plastic, Kel Tec PF-9 is starting to find it's way into my pocket more and more.
I maintain that to carry a .32ACP for self defence is foolish. There are much better choices with similar specifications as to size and weight of that Kel Tec .32 in at least 9mm. I also think that carry of a 9mm in a service sized handgun is foolish, but that's a different topic. I do think the 9X19 should be the minimum for a very light and flat pocket pistol.
Still, I'm a revolver guy, although that light, thin, cheap, plastic, Kel Tec PF-9 is starting to find it's way into my pocket more and more.
I don't ask for credentials or statistics if one is giving an opinion. However when an individual goes beyond an opinions and asserts that: statistics show, data shows - then I do.
It is my background...education and training. I don't believe anyones statistical data on blind faith. If you want to give an opinion, fine. It you want to say that statistics or data back your opinion then you need to be willing to back that up with hard evidence.
I generally feel different. I don't choose to believe something just because I like it or it sounds good. I believe it if the evidence shows it to be true, but that is just me.
David Armstrong
Moderator
So, not only do you not have any idea what the data is and what it shows, you are too lazy to look it up yourself. Sorry, but if you wish to glory in your lack of knowledge, that is your choice. I'm not going to spoonfeed you.
Again...are you just too lazy to do this stuff yourself or do you not know how to do it? You don't like my numbers, fine, go find your own. I do find it sort of interesting when people refuse to do that, BTW. Says quite a bit about them, IMO.
Yes. Ph.D., published in refereed journals, presented at professional seminars, etc.
LOL! Tell you what--why don't you collect your own data and and then use that new research ability? I've already started your design for you: "Randomly select any 100 that can be considered representative of the common DGU incident ...". Let us know what you find out. Then try to give us a the references and statistics to just those 100. Ought to be interesting.
I disagree. Many are experts about what they write. Unfortunately, many also leave their area of expertise within their writing.
Yes, but is there a substantial difference in stopping that can be attributed to caliber among handguns? That is the real issue, and in that arena the .32 has worked comparatively well.
Yet you are unwilling to look for the evidence on your won. So in essence you put yourself and your beliefs in the hands of others and whatever they choose to tell you about. Strange.
David Armstrong
Moderator
FWIW, while it is correct to say that chamber empty has been mandated in some instances, it is not correct to say that chamber empty is/has only been used when mandated. Lots of individuals carry or have carried chamber empty by choice.
Nope, not too lazy...just educated....Where I was taught I was learned it was proper Etiquette to post a cite to the information I reference. I guess you PhD left that out.
I have not seen your numbers...you are too lazy to post them. Or they are non-existent.
Yes...I am sure...proud of that are we....And you should be. A PhD is a major accomplishment. However your PhD is not in research, and I would be willing to bet you have little real training in research or statistics. However if you post your data you can prove me wrong.
Spelling is tough for those PhDs...However I am not a trained researcher...I am trained in the evaluation of research provided by others. That is what my thesis was about.
Again, if you are willing I will look at the data you provide...as will other knowledgeable posters on the board.
However if you think I will accept your word because it is your word you are wrong...You can be defensive, you can make assertions. I am just asking you to back your assertions with data.....If you can.
Be proud of your PhD.....but back your assertions up with real data or simply state it is your opinion.
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