P32 in pocket chamber a round or no?
- Thread starter ShootemDown
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orionengnr
New member
I believe that you dramatically increase your chances of an ND during daily "fiddling" around with it. Once it's loaded, don't monkey with it.
The P32 is small, slide is small and not-too-grippy, springs are stiff. Not an easy pistol to chamber. My P3AT stays loaded all the time. When I go to the range the ammo gets recycled...downrange.
An unloaded pistol is a club. An unloaded P32 is a seven-ounce plastic club.
tackdriver
New member
That does not make sense
This is not even close to being true in a situation where a self-defense shooting would be justified.
If someone is really trying to KILL YOU, you're going to be shaking because your adrenaline is going to be coming out of your ears and hopefully you're going to be moving as fast as you can away from the threat.
If you think you can dig a P32 out of your pants, grab onto that tiny little slide and get a good enough grip on it to rack the slide (keeping in mind how tough that spring is) and get that miracle one-shot-stop (with a .32ACP) off in a life-or-death situation, I believe you are fooling yourself and taking an unnecessary risk.
If you don't believe me, try it with an unloaded P32. And I don't mean while you're standing still. Jog down a hallway or something.
I do carry a P32 in pocket, but only as a backup, when clothing makes it necessary or when the threat level is so absolutely low that it makes sense. I also carry it in a jacket pocket instead of pants when possible. If you're moving at all, your leg is going to be closing off pocket access.
This is not even close to being true in a situation where a self-defense shooting would be justified.
If someone is really trying to KILL YOU, you're going to be shaking because your adrenaline is going to be coming out of your ears and hopefully you're going to be moving as fast as you can away from the threat.
If you think you can dig a P32 out of your pants, grab onto that tiny little slide and get a good enough grip on it to rack the slide (keeping in mind how tough that spring is) and get that miracle one-shot-stop (with a .32ACP) off in a life-or-death situation, I believe you are fooling yourself and taking an unnecessary risk.
If you don't believe me, try it with an unloaded P32. And I don't mean while you're standing still. Jog down a hallway or something.
I do carry a P32 in pocket, but only as a backup, when clothing makes it necessary or when the threat level is so absolutely low that it makes sense. I also carry it in a jacket pocket instead of pants when possible. If you're moving at all, your leg is going to be closing off pocket access.
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Another thought is that not having a round chambered takes away the possibility of shooting through the pocket; if someone demands your money, stick your hand in your pocket and fire the first shot or two before they have a clue anything's up, then draw and take aimed shots as necessary.
David Armstrong
Moderator
Nonsense. Very few shooting happen in that critical split-second time frame that matters. In fact, many justified shootings occur in a time fram elong enough to get the gun from some location off the body.
And that keeps you from getting to your gun and chambering a round how??
We're all entitled to an opinion, but let's look at the facts, which are that chamber empty carry has been used a whole lot without much trouble, in spite of all the nay-sayers. FWIW, if you believe in that miracle one-shot-stop with a .45 ACP in a life or death situation, I believe you are fooling yourself and taking an unnecessary risk.
The only difference between chamber empty and chamber loaded presentation time-wise is the fraction of a second it takes to rack the slide.
tackdriver
New member
David,
Every bit of training I've ever had has been from SWAT officers and instructors. Every point you've made flies in the face of years of that training. Why you would suggest that someone would carry a tiny pistol with known feeding problems and shooting a .32 ACP unloaded is beyond me.
And if it's a fact that shootings don't take place in environments that call for split-second presentations and decisions, I would be thrilled to see the evidence.
You may also be the first person in history to attempt to start a .32 versus .45 caliber debate.
Every bit of training I've ever had has been from SWAT officers and instructors. Every point you've made flies in the face of years of that training. Why you would suggest that someone would carry a tiny pistol with known feeding problems and shooting a .32 ACP unloaded is beyond me.
And if it's a fact that shootings don't take place in environments that call for split-second presentations and decisions, I would be thrilled to see the evidence.
You may also be the first person in history to attempt to start a .32 versus .45 caliber debate.
odessastraight
New member
Heck, with a .32ACP it probably matters little if you have a round in the tube or not. I'm sorry to have to be the one to break the news to you, but the .32ACP isn't even a barely adequate self defence cartridge. If you've just got to carry that light then the minimum should be 9mm and with very good loads, at that. Kel Tec also makes 9mm pocket pistols, P-11 and P-9. I own a P-9 single stack that has proven completely reliable (150+ rounds) is lighter than, and that I can shoot more accurately than my .38 Snubs. If I wasn't such a gun snob I'd probably carry that little thing instead of my Detective Special.
ShootemDown
Moderator
odessa, I was already aware of the limitations if the 32auto cartridge.
If I were to tell you, that I carry a Full sized .32 pistol as a main weapon, fine, go ahead and tell me I should get 9mm or better...
but this is the P32, the lightest gun I ever seen. small and concealable.
This piece, is for when I DONT expect to get into a gunfight. If I did, I would bring something bigger or not go at all.
The role of the P32, is to aid my survival, in the off chance that say 4 or 5 muggers attack me at once, the 7or 8 rounds of .32 will even the playing field, it is easier to fight when your adversaries have a few holes in each. PLUS the shots heard will surely bring the police, or if not at least some bystanders for witnesses...
all in all, I will stick to my P32 when max concealibility is an issue, as it frequently is:, and when it is not, I carry a 637 or glock 19.
If I were to tell you, that I carry a Full sized .32 pistol as a main weapon, fine, go ahead and tell me I should get 9mm or better...
but this is the P32, the lightest gun I ever seen. small and concealable.
This piece, is for when I DONT expect to get into a gunfight. If I did, I would bring something bigger or not go at all.
The role of the P32, is to aid my survival, in the off chance that say 4 or 5 muggers attack me at once, the 7or 8 rounds of .32 will even the playing field, it is easier to fight when your adversaries have a few holes in each. PLUS the shots heard will surely bring the police, or if not at least some bystanders for witnesses...
all in all, I will stick to my P32 when max concealibility is an issue, as it frequently is:, and when it is not, I carry a 637 or glock 19.
2cooltoolz
New member
+1 on the Seecamp 32
...and a very definite +1 on keeping one chambered. I wouldn't consider the other option! In a pocket holster (my Nemesis works great!) with nothing else in the pocket. I've only counted one dissenting opinion...
...and a very definite +1 on keeping one chambered. I wouldn't consider the other option! In a pocket holster (my Nemesis works great!) with nothing else in the pocket. I've only counted one dissenting opinion...
odessastraight
New member
I'll go with somtimes needing to compromise power for concealibility, but only to a certain degree. Heck, I have, in fact, done just exactly that and now I do it on a regular basis. I'll admit that it's all for comfort, too. The .45 Commander or the K or L framed Smith just got too heavy and uncomfortable. I go with a pocket snubby .38 (or a tiny 9mm) now. I in no way agree with your rationale thinking you may have safer times than other times to rationalize the carry such a weak caliber.
Still, it's your life and no skin off of my nose what you do carry. I'd say that ,whatever you do carry, keep a round in the chamber.
Still, it's your life and no skin off of my nose what you do carry. I'd say that ,whatever you do carry, keep a round in the chamber.
I have the exact same setup: Same holster, only mine's a P3AT (.380, get it? *laughs sarcastically*).
I carry chambered. The holster doesn't cover the whole trigger guard, but it covers the trigger itself. That seems to be enough to keep foreign objects from engaging the trigger. (+1 on not carrying anything else in that pocket!!!)
Carrying chambered seems to work for me. The trigger pull on the 3AT is REALLY long! Kel Tec would have some REAL problems if their "pocket carry" pistol started discharging in people's pockets! They tout their "block safety" feature pretty heartily.
I carry chambered. The holster doesn't cover the whole trigger guard, but it covers the trigger itself. That seems to be enough to keep foreign objects from engaging the trigger. (+1 on not carrying anything else in that pocket!!!)
Carrying chambered seems to work for me. The trigger pull on the 3AT is REALLY long! Kel Tec would have some REAL problems if their "pocket carry" pistol started discharging in people's pockets! They tout their "block safety" feature pretty heartily.
ShootemDown
Moderator
HA HA HA, I never thought of that ! did kel tec mean to do that ? have AT rhyme with 80 ?
David Armstrong
Moderator
I would hope so. Different situations, different equipment, different concerns. SWAT officers and such have a very different set of issues surrounding their carry of firearms than does the non-LE CCW holder.
I don't suggest that. What I suggest is (1) in most DGU incidents the caliber and location and carry-mode of the gun doesn't matter very much; (2) different people have different concerns, or different equipment problems, than others and they should make decisions based on what is best for them and their situation, not what is best for someone else; and (3) autoloaders were carried chamber empty for most of the 20th Century, and are still carried that way in lots of places, without it seeming to be much of a handicap, so all this talk about how bad it is is not supported by the evidence. If I actually suggest anything it is that most folks would be better off if we all just carried K-frame .38s and didn't get wrapped up in all these fairly irrelavent issues.
Some do, but they are the rare exception. And for that exception the place and mode of carry of the gun is going to have more impact on speed of presentation than the condition of the chamber. As for evidence, my suggestion is always if you don't believe me go do the research yourself. I can tell you that I've looked at over 10,000 shootings, both LE and non-LE, and I present that information to take or leave as one wishes. I can tell you that a summary of the NRA Armed Citizen column shows almost no cases where the quick draw mattered. I can try to explain logically that unless there is a very small window of time the incident occurs in, it doesn’t matter. If it happens before that small window, it doesn’t matter. If it happens after that small window, it doesn’t matter. So, what is that window? It is the time it takes you to rack the slide. Let us assume that adds a quarter second to your total time (which is pretty slow, by the way). And let us assume that you can draw and fire at the 2 second mark. If the attack comes before you can draw and fire having the chamber loaded or not doesn’t matter, as you don’t have time to draw and fire at all. If the attack comes with a 2.25+ second time frame having the chamber loaded or not doesn’t matter, as you have time to chamber a round. Only if the attack happens after 2 seconds but before 2.25 seconds does the chamber condition matter. But I always request folks do their own research. Crawl through the internet. Read the papers. Look at the incidents. See for yourself if it matters, when it matters, and what situations it matters in, then make a decision based on that knowledge.
David Armstrong
Moderator
As mentioned above, feel free to do research on your own if you don't like mine. I'm sorry that 30 years of research, 10,000+ incidents, and thousands of pages of literature can't be accessed with a mouse click. I've never understood why one would accept the data from some unknown person they never heard of over me any way. My credential are as good as most, better than many, in this area. But please, feel free to look at the information yourself and show us where I'm worng. Heck, I'll make it easy. Forget thousands of cases. Randomly select any 100 that can be considered representative of the common DGU incident and let us know how you come out.
Very few premier training individuals are trained researchers, and few of them spend much time doing research. Most of them don't provide data, they give quote findings from other people that may or may not have the data. And I've lost track of the number of times I've found top trainers simply quoting something they heard that later turned out to be incorrect. Heck, one of my prized possessions was a letter from Jeff Cooper thanking me for correcting a claim he was making that was incorrect, and Jeff was one of the better ones when it comes to reliable information.
fat old gun nut
New member
chambered round in p32?
I carry a 3AT from kel-tec I keep it in my back pocket ALL the time. It fits well is not bothersome when I sit and always goes "BANG" when I pull the trigger. I can't ask more of a gun than that!
I carry a 3AT from kel-tec I keep it in my back pocket ALL the time. It fits well is not bothersome when I sit and always goes "BANG" when I pull the trigger. I can't ask more of a gun than that!
Mine is a px4 sub compact in 9mm. Honestly, I can pull that thing out, work the slide and fire in one very fast fluid motion. Thats how I practice with it. However if I found myself, say, walking down a dark alley way in NY for instance (which none of us should be doing in the first place) I would most certainly chamber the round and more than that I would be keeping my hand on it at all times.
If I was (realistically) physically attacked I am confident that I can draw my gun just as fast either way. Again, because that how I practice. If someone were to jump out of a corner and grab me (lets say he was alone) It would be hand to hand and in close quarters--and putting a gun into the mix is not always in your favor.
If I were to feel that I was in danger I would chamber a round. But in my life, where I live it, how I live it, I don't find myself walking down many dark alleyways. My most likely threats will be do to: road rage, maniacs that might walk into some public place, ex.) and so there is no realistic perceived event that will require me to literally draw my gun a fraction of a second faster. There is more than one way to do everything.
(which none of us should be doing in the first place) I would most certainly chamber the round and more than that I would be keeping my hand on it at all times.If I was (realistically) physically attacked I am confident that I can draw my gun just as fast either way. Again, because that how I practice. If someone were to jump out of a corner and grab me (lets say he was alone) It would be hand to hand and in close quarters--and putting a gun into the mix is not always in your favor.
If I were to feel that I was in danger I would chamber a round. But in my life, where I live it, how I live it, I don't find myself walking down many dark alleyways. My most likely threats will be do to: road rage, maniacs that might walk into some public place, ex.) and so there is no realistic perceived event that will require me to literally draw my gun a fraction of a second faster. There is more than one way to do everything.
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