+P vs. not: Which handguns

+P vs not: Which handguns
In the last 20 posts, there have been only 2 that have mentioned a specific firearm and whether or not it is +p rated (you know, the topic). That's more than 1/2 the posts on this thread.

Do any of those that are discussing the merits of +p vs not have a handgun that falls into either[one or the other] category? Please, tell us about it.
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S&W says I can use +P in mine, but cautions on requiring more service if used.

They say NO to +P+.

My guns will never see either.
 
not a semi auto (sorry) but on the subject of +p ammo, I have a Colt Agent .38 Spl (alloy frame Detective Special).

Lots of questions about it when it came out, and Colt took the position that it was ok to use +p BUT, you should send them the gun to have it checked out after 1,000 rounds, and every 1,000 there after.

Sadly, I don't think Colt will do or can do that anymore. I know I'll never come close to 1000 rnds of +p through that gun in my lifetime...

A friend of mine had the locking lugs of his Browning Hi Power peened by shooting some "+p" 9mm ammo, back in the mid 80s. No idea what the ammo was, other than European surplus something. Everything over standard is +p, but not all +p is SAAMI spec +p and some of it is much hotter. The fabled "hot European SMG ammo" too hot for pistols, probably does exist, though no one seems to be able to ID the maker or markings...

Be wary of stuff that is foreign made and loose packed (repacked), it may NOT be properly identified, and just might be something not good for your pistol. Treat it like Bubba's gun show reloads in a baggie. you don't and can't know for sure what it is, so its not safe to shoot, but can be broken down for the bullets, and maybe the brass. Toss the powder.
 
Here is mine...

As there is no .40 +P, if I have info on it, it will probably just be generic to the platform.

Beretta 92 - +P and +P+ will increase wear

Beretta PX4 - +P and +P+ will increase wear

CZ75 SP01 - no mention other than SAAMI, other cartridges could damage; all steel gun, to point out

Glock 30S - no mention

Nagant 1895 - Century “manual,” no mention

NAA Sidewinder - a .22 revolver (LR and Magnum)... no mention

Ruger LCP - do not use +P

Ruger New Vaquero Convertible - nothing specific, just powder overloads could damage the gun; doesn’t list anything about .45 ACP cylinder

Ruger SR1911 - no mention, except powder overloads

SIG P228 - no mention

SIG P938 - no mention, but SIG says +P will increase wear

S&W 1006 - +P will increase wear, +P+ not to be used

S&W 629/642 - same generic manual; +P will increase wear (also warning about pre-1958 revolvers), +P+ not to be used

S&W M&P Pro/Compact - .40 guns, same manual; +P will increase wear, +P+ not to be used

Yugo M57 - no manual
 
Page 16 of the Remington RM380 manual: "WARNING! Only use ammunition designated on the Barrel. Using ammunition not designated on the Barrel including "Plus-P" (+P) or a "Plus-P-Plus" (+P+) of the same caliber, may cause property damage, personal injury, and/or death."

According to the manual, Remington recommends SAMMI spec ammunition and I don't believe there are any SAMMI guidelines for 380 +p/+p+. Also, Remington highly recommends usage of Remington or Barnes branded ammunition products.
 
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44 AMP said:
The fabled "hot European SMG ammo" too hot for pistols, probably does exist, though no one seems to be able to ID the maker or markings...
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Here's a list that I've compiled from various sources of ways to identify some of that fabled "extra hot" 9mm subgun ammo. YMMV. :)
  • "L7A1", "L18A1", or "9MM CARB." (for 9mm Carbine) packaging or headstamps
  • Packaging labeled "FOR SUBMACHINE GUNS" or "FOR UZI"
  • Hirtenberger, Samson, or Israeli Military Industries (IMI) packaging [not all ammo sold under these names is bad; this should be cross-checked with other warning signs]
  • "MK 2z" or "2Z" packaging or headstamps, particularly in conjunction with Pakistani Ordinance Factory (POF) markings
I've also read horror stories online about some batches of Canadian milsurp 9mm NATO imported in the 1980s, but there seems to be some disagreement about whether it's really dangerously "hot" or just obnoxiously loud (:rolleyes:), and I haven't found anything definitively explaining how to identify it.
=44 AMP said:
Be wary of stuff that is foreign made and loose packed (repacked), it may NOT be properly identified, and just might be something not good for your pistol. Treat it like Bubba's gun show reloads in a baggie. you don't and can't know for sure what it is, so its not safe to shoot, but can be broken down for the bullets, and maybe the brass. Toss the powder.
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Sage advice.

FWIW I treat ammo that's not in original and clearly marked packaging the same way I would treat motor oil or ground beef in similar packaging: I let the OTHER guy try it. ;):eek:
 
I was always under the impression that the +P stuff was more of a gimmick than anything else and the +P+ was fools folly.
Seems the stuff has hung on longer than most gimmicks do.
 
I know from experience that Charter Arms revolvers do not like +p ammo. I've had a few and ran regular .38 special in all but one. Had one I ran +p thru and rattled that poor gun to pieces in no time, just couldn't handle it.
I don't see a need for 9mm+p. If I want more power, I'll buy a .40cal.
 
Springfield Armory 1911 owners manual says +P ammo is not recommended in pistols shorter than 5 inches.

Personally, I don't see any need to run +P ammo its just another caliber war type of belief.

The last thing you want is to rely on something that performs totally different than what you train with, there are plenty of quality self defense loads that are not +P that penetrate and expand just fine under normal pressure loads.
 
I just checked my S&W SD9, manual says +P is a solid maybe ( excessive pressures, accelerated wear) and +p+ is a hard no.
 
I checked all my handguns -

Ruger SP101 .357 - it doesn't care

Ruger LCR .357 - it doesn't care either

Ruger Security Six .357 - it has never cared
 
In 9mm, I’m generally one who uses standard pressure, though not always. In .38 Special, it depends on the revolver being used. What I find interesting about this discussion, which seems tilted in favor of standard pressure ammunition, is that a great deal, even a preponderance, of self defense ammunition in 9mm is Plus P and nearly all .38 Special self defense ammo is Plus P. Clearly someone believes modern guns can handle at least a modest or minimum diet of Plus P ammunition. That said, the caveats make sense to me: a steady diet of higher pressure ammunition will increase the amount and rate of wear on the firearm. So will jack rabbit starts and high speed cruising cause increased wear on an automobile. Some pistols, like the Ruger American, are so clearly overbuilt for the cartridge that the company’s blessing on sustained Plus P use is not at all surprising.
 
I actually find it highly annoying that stores stock only or mostly +p ammo choices in self defense ammo. I actually wont buy it, not because im worried the gun cant handle it but because it makes no sense to me to rely on something that behaves totally different than the normal pressure ammo I practice with. But the stores stock what the majority of the people want, not whats best as the majority are still believe in "stopping power".
 
I generally practice with standard pressure 9mm white box.
I'm not pursuing +P for my S+W M+P 9C

But I do have a question to consider. Many duty/carry guns were designed to handle 40 S+W,as,for a while,it was "the" duty/carry round.

I just looked and the SAAMI max pressure (Not + P ) for both 9mm and 40 S+W is 35,000 psi.
I don't know the exact engineering/physics of how it works out in a firearm,but for hydraulics,at the same pressure,a larger bore cylinder generates more force.
I went off bullet diameters,because I did not have to look them up.It was easy.
The 40 S+W has about 12% more bullet base area.
All other things being equal (they seldom are) I don't think a handgun like the M+P would know the difference between a 40 S+W round at 35,000 psi and a 9mm +P at 38,500.
Of course,the life of a 40 S+W might be shorter.
 
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I don’t subject any of my firearms to a steady diet of +P ammo, but every so often you really need practice with this ammo if you carry it!
 
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