+P in a Beretta 92

HighValleyRanch

New member
A friend just got a Beretta 92. He lives in the Catskills and want to use this for woods carry as it is his only handgun right now.
I suggested Buffalobore Outdoorsman, but his manual states that +P is not recommended.

For a heavy steel firearm, why is that? The open slide design?
Heck, I can shoot +P in my tiny plastic Kahr PM9!:confused:
 
The frame on the standard Beretta 92 is aluminum alloy, not steel, unless you’re friend specifically got a steel framed model.

I’ll let others with more experience with the 92 sound off on the safety of using +P in the Beretta. I have admittedly shot some in mine, though not much.


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I think he needs to read the manual closer. I'm betting it says no +P+. Pretty much any modern gun will handle +P. In fact the NATO loads used by the military were hotter than most commercial +P ammo.

Buffalo Bore says.

This 9mm load is rated @ +P pressures (not +P+) and as such is safe to use in any/all 9mm chambered pistols that are in normal operating condition.
 
I don't know why Beretta would recommend against the use of +P ammo in the 92 Series when the M9 variation served in the US Military for a decades being fed a steady diet of hot NATO Spec ammo, and shared the same exact frame between both the 9mm 92FS and .40 S&W 96FS, unless your friend's Beretta 92 is an older model 92S/B.

Regardless, +P ammo is in every practical sense a worthless novelty that only adds a measly 10% increase in performance at best, in exchange for wearing out springs at least 25% faster and can potentially damage the firearm if you don't upgrade your springs.

Frankly, if Standard Pressure ammunition is insufficient for your purpose, then so is +P, and you're better off upgrading to a more powerful cartridge.

Also, not to spark a caliber debate, but 9mm Luger generally isn't considered a viable Wilderness Defense cartridge. Most folks recommend .357 Magnum as a bare minimum, some won't even go lower than .44 Magnum.
Personally, I say that if you're going into the wilderness where dangerous predatory animals roam, then you pack the most powerful firearm that you can possibly manage to shoot accurately, focusing on cartridges with the highest probability of stopping an animal in a single well-placed shot, since animals tend to be fast enough that the most you're likely to get off on an animal who sees you as prey is 2-3 shots if you're lucky, so capacity should play second fiddle to muzzle energy.

If I were going into the woods, then I would carry my Mossberg 590 Shockwave loaded with Brenneke Black Magic Magnum slugs.
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Or if it had to be a handgun, then I'd make it my H&K USP45 Elite loaded with 230gr .45 Super.

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I've shot a fair amount of Speer's 124gn GDHP +P's in my Beretta 92fs. As I have shot the same ammo in my Kahr CW9. It's my carry ammo.

I also load similarly strong ammo for these two firearms.

I would not, however, feed either firearm a steady diet of this type of ammo. And it's always a good idea to make sure the recoil spring is in good shape. When in doubt, throw it out.
 
Regardless, +P ammo is in every practical sense a worthless novelty that only adds a measly 10% increase in performance at best, in exchange for wearing out springs at least 25% faster and can potentially damage the firearm if you don't upgrade your springs.

Out of curiosity, where are you getting those percentages from?


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You're right, I misspoke. As for the percentage of wear, I've seen that percentage thrown around everywhere by a number of knowledgeable individuals, your best bet is to Google it and take your pick.

Otherwise, feel free to find a reliable source that states otherwise and I will happily retract my statement.
 
You're right, I misspoke. As for the percentage of wear, I've seen that percentage thrown around everywhere by a number of knowledgeable individuals, your best bet is to Google it and take your pick.

Otherwise, feel free to find a reliable source that states otherwise and I will happily retract my statement.


I Googled that specific percentage and couldn’t find anything that seemed to use 25% specifically. Such a specific percentage without a given relation seems a bit dubious. As others on this thread have pointed out, there are non +P loadings in 9mm that are close to +P and there are also commercial loadings that are noticeably slower in terms of velocity. I think you’d need a specific comparison to come up with a meaningful percentage in terms of increased wear.

I’m of the opinion when a person makes a claim the onus is on them to back up the claim. Otherwise we can make practically any claim and not be bothered to ascertain its validity. It doesn’t bode well for figuring out the truth in my experience. I’ve seen this both on forums and in person where people parrot numbers because they heard someone they consider an authority figure mention that number. But when you look into it there doesn’t actually seem to be any source. It’s happened to me where I've been the one repeating the claim.


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As others have noted - a Beretta 92/ M9 was designed for Nato spec ammo, which pressure wise is roughly in between standard SAAMI loads and +p loads.

A 92 will last a lifetime or two with standard pressure ammo, and most likely a lifetime with +p ammo.

mine has well over 30K through it and it still functions like it was brand new. I change the recoil spring every 10K rounds.
 
He says that his is all steel.
As stated earlier, it is his only gun, so purchasing another for woods carry is not an option. He had to go through a bunch of hoops to get the gun in the first place, being New York.

Manuals and warnings are often written by bean counters and lawyers to protect the interests of the company over what can sometime just be common sense.
Probably every manual says not to fiddle with the firearm unless you are a professional gunsmith.......yet people do.

The manual states:
We do not recommend the extended use of +p ammo....
two key words, recommend and extended.
Leave a ton of room of interpretation.
 
The only all steel Beretta 92 that I'm aware of is the 92X, so unless he has that one, then it isn't all steel. That being said, unless Beretta has started cheaping out on the 92 series, then it's more than capable of handling +P ammo, especially if it's an all steel 92X.
Just as well, as previously stated, +P ammo doesn't add any significant amount of performance, especially not against predatory animals. Standard Pressure is equally as deadly against anything 9mm is suited for, and +P is equally ineffective against anything 9mm isn't suited for. 9mm Luger was designed as an anti-personnel round, suitable for anything in the same size/weight class as a average human being. Beyond that, it gets sketchy.

If 9mm Luger is the best that he's got, then he should load it with Lehigh Defense/Underwood Xtreme Penetrators, as that's about the best you can do for a woods round in 9mm, and should make it adequate for anything up to the size/weight of a 300lb Black Bear. If he's planning on going to Alaska or something, then carry bear spray or better yet, pick somewhere with smaller animals. (In fact, that's good advice in general, even if you've got better ammo. Best way to mitigate the risk of massive predatory animal attacks is to avoid their habitat altogether, no big guns or specialty ammo required.)
 
I'd be willing to bet his frame is aluminum, but is the steel versus aluminum frame debate relevant? I thought the original failures in the beretta from high pressure ammunition, were in the slide and not the frame. Then later there were problems with the service life of the locking block. I could be wrong?
 
He says that his is all steel.
As stated earlier, it is his only gun, so purchasing another for woods carry is not an option. He had to go through a bunch of hoops to get the gun in the first place, being New York.

Manuals and warnings are often written by bean counters and lawyers to protect the interests of the company over what can sometime just be common sense.
Probably every manual says not to fiddle with the firearm unless you are a professional gunsmith.......yet people do.

The manual states:
We do not recommend the extended use of +p ammo....
two key words, recommend and extended.
Leave a ton of room of interpretation.
So don't shoot it all the time. But occasional or defensive use should be ok.

Also, if your considering woods carry, the underwood loaded with the lehigh extreme penetrators would be a good, non +P option if you can find them.
 
his manual states that +P is not recommended.

Pretty much every manufacturer puts that in their manual. It's to reduce their liability in case somebody blows the gun up with Jim Bob's +P+++ Ogre Zapper gun show reloads.

That said, the load you mentioned seems pretty odd:

147 gr. Hard Cast FN 1,100 fps

There isn't a SAAMI spec for +P 147gr ammo, and that seems pretty warm to me. I'd be leery of using it, especially since it's not jacketed.
 
It is perfectly safe--it's not going to blow up the gun or anything. But it will put additional wear and tear on the firearm.

https://www.berettausa.com/assets/39/29/92FS_Series_Manual.pdf

The comment about +P and +P+ is on page 20

By the way, the manual does not state that the use of +P is not recommended, it's only the extended use of +P that isn't recommended.

For whatever it's worth, given the loading you recommended to him, there's also a section on that page that provides a list of warnings/cautions relating to the use of unjacketed bullets in the Beretta 92/96 pistols. Probably worth a read if he plans to be shooting lead (unjacketed) rounds through a Beretta 92.
He says that his is all steel.
I've run into more than just one or two people who own Beretta 92 pistols with the standard aluminum frame and don't realize that it's not an all-steel pistol.

Not that it makes any practical difference. The same cautions about +P, +P+ and unjacketed ammunition appear in the 92 Steel manual.

https://www.beretta.com/assets/12/29/Beretta_Steel_I_User_Manual.pdf

See page 68.
Heck, I can shoot +P in my tiny plastic Kahr PM9!
Of course. And he can shoot +P in his Beretta too. Beretta doesn't say not to do it, only that they don't recommend extended use because it will put extra wear on parts of the gun.
 
There isn't a SAAMI spec for +P 147gr ammo, and that seems pretty warm to me. I'd be leery of using it, especially since it's not jacketed.

There is no +P that is weight specific. +P only refers to peak chamber pressure regardless of what the bullet weighs.

147 @ 1,100 fps is possible with current load data;
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/fast-9mm-loads/388612

Buffalo Bore loads the same specs with a 147 +P lead:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=389

Underwood offers a 147 +P Jacketed at 1125 fps. It clocks at 1097 fps from my 4" M&P.
https://www.underwoodammo.com/9mm-luger-p-147-grain-jacketed-hollow-point.html

Lead bullets can run a little faster than jacketed when pushed to max pressure with the same powder.
 
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