+P ammo thru non+P guns??

I know one thing. I loaded and fired .38 Specials that were a LOT hotter than any +P ever made through K frames and N-frame .38-44 revolvers and didn't blow anything up. The advice from the gun makers sounds good, but my loads went through guns made a long time before S&W used model numbers.

But if you encounter any LE +P+ loads in .38 Special, I recommend not firing them in any .38 revolver, only in guns made for .357 Magnum.

Jim
 
DG45 said: Is it a secret what make and model guns you're talking about?... I'm suspicious that your "38's", as you say your guns are stamped, are 38 S&W's or some other type of "38". All of my 38 Specials are marked "38 SPL" or "38 Special".
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Haha good point! They are stamped with several other things, as all handguns are... Among them is "Special", as in ".38 Special"! Sorry for the confusion, and I have ammended the original question to say this.
Yes, the handguns are stamped with ".38 special" (a Ruger Police Service Six and a Cobra Derringer to be exact). They are NOT stamped +P, however.
Thanks for pointing this out, I did neglect to be specific!
 
An analogy...

Lots of times, car/gun comparisons don't really match up well, but in this case, I think it might.

Is is ok to redline your engine? Is it ok to dump the clutch? Is it ok to run your engine (rated for regular) on high octane aircraft or dragster fuel?

All these things stress the mechanism, more than what it was intended for. Can you do it? Sure. For a while. Will problems show up? Sure, if you do it enough. How much is enough? Nobody knows for certain, with specific individual cars or guns.

Every gun design will have a "safety margin" of pressure it will take over and above standard ammo pressure, without failing. Modern guns have a pretty good track record, and it seems foolish to me to constantly run somewhere in that unspecified safety zone.

Your gun may take +p, but if it isn marked +p, and something does fail (big or small) I wouldn't expect the maker to stand behind it.
 
+p loads are well below proof loadings. So they're not likely to blow up any modern 38. They may cause premature wear. Some guns are going to be more affected by the extra pressure and recoil. Your cobra falls in this catagory the soft materiaal and less than robust design will shoot loose in short time. The Ruger is at the other end of the spectrum it is basicly a short chambered 357 cylinder and frame size and metalurgy are the same for all Ruger Six series guns. It'll last forever and a day shooting the heaviest nastiest 38s you can find. Matter of fact iirc Rugers Six manuel says +p+ is ok
 
+P ammo is definitely a no-go in the Cobra Derringer as it says so right in the manual

http://www.cobrapistols.net/pdfs/Products/Cobra-BigBoreDerringer-Manual.pdf

(+P) “Plus-P” ammunition generates pressures in excess of standard ammunition. These pressures can
exceed the margin of safety built into your Derringer and could therefore be dangerous, DO NOT use
(+P) loads in any Cobra Enterprises manufactured Derringer.
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Ruger on the other hand doesn't really give specifics about what type of ammo they recommend in a Security Six beyond that "loaded to U.S. factory standards". That being said, most Security Sixes were chambered for .357 Magnum which operates at much higher pressures than .38 Special or .38 Special +P. The only reason that the Security Six was really offered in .38 Special only is because many police departments would not authorize the use of .357 Magnum revolvers by their officers. I would not have a second's hesitation about firing .38 +P ammunition in a Security Six.

Why does everyone think +P ammunition is so absolutely necssary in their .38 Specials?
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Because there are very few good standard pressure defensive .38 Special loadings out there. Most either use too light or too easily expanding a bullet that penetrates shallowly or a heavier bullet that can't be driven fast enough to reliably expand. The only standard pressure .38 Special defense loadings I would personally trust are Hornady's 110grn Critical Defense or the 158grn LSWCHP and 125grn JHP loadings from Buffalo Bore. If I couldn't get one of those and couldn't use +P, I'd resort to 148grn HBWC.
 
Two part answer.

1. Contact the manufacturer of the firearm if in doubt about using +P. Why take the chance?

2. It is highly unlikely that a gun will actually blow up from firing +P ammunition of the proper caliber even if it's not rated for +P ammunition. On the other hand, it's fairly likely that it will be damaged or experience accelerated wear if a significant amount of +P ammunition is shot in a gun when the manufacturer recommends against it.
 
I say, if my life depended on it, why go looking for trouble with a gun blowing up in your face. Buy another gun RATED FOR +P. Nuff said.
 
A Ruger Security/Speed/Service Six in .38 Special will take .357 Magnum pressures without a problem. Ruger heat treated everything for .357 Magnum and just slapped in .38 Special cylinders when necessary for PD purposes. It was easier this way, especially since only a small portion of the guns were ever chambered for .38 special. I have used hundreds of .38 Special handloads that are the equivalent of .357 Mag pressures (5.5 grains of Unique behind a 158 grain LSWC bullet) in Sixes labelled for .38 Special and never had any issues.

The Ruger is not a problem. It does sound like a bad idea in the Cobra.
 
I agree that the Ruger should handle +P with no problem.

If were you, I wouldn't shoot +P ammo in that derringer even if it was rated for it. It looks like that hammer spur could tear a big chunk of meat out of the web of your hand between the thumb and forefinger. I used to have a Charter Arms revolver that did that. Purple hearts were given for lesser wounds. (John Kerry's anyway.)

If it were my gun, I'd load the derringer with 158 grain LSWC's. At the point blank range thats all that guns like that are good for you shouldn't have any trouble hitting center of mass and I seriously doubt that anybody is going to shrug off a liver/kidney/ heart/head shot from a 38 Special 158 Grain LSWC. Winchester and Remington both sell em. Pricy. Over $30 for box of 50 at Midway. There's another brand called Ultramax that sells something called a "remanufactured" 158 Grain LSWC for about $15 a box. I'm not sure what that is and in it may be fine, I don't know, but if I'm going to stake my life on a rcartridge, it'll be the Winchester Super X or Remington Express version, and I'm happy to pay their price.
 
Unless I had to right then and there to defend myself sure no problem...as many rounds as it took.
Otherwise, really what's the point?
If you're at the range, it's only got to penetrate paper. So why potentially wear out the revolver out faster, or damage it, or in those rare instances injure myself?
I'm guilty of doing it myself once or twice when I was younger, I'm fine the gun's fine. Just pushing the revolver to the limit like that for nothing more thn simple plinking was pretty stupid of me.
Glad I'm older now and never do anything foolish anymore...:rolleyes:
 
+P+ ?

Now would +P+ rounds do damage in a +P rated firearm? I am very interested in buying 127gr +P+ T-Series Winchester 9mm rounds for my Kahr CW9. I only plan on firing about 50 rounds to ensure reliability and to get used to the higher recoil rounds (however I didn't notice any difference between +P and standard rounds).
 
Call the Manufacturer and ask them, they made the gun... they should know.
Why "guess", call them and find out.
 
I would no more worry about shooting P+ ammo in any 38 that didn't look like a piece of junk in the first place, than I would about being hit by a flying saucer going to my car this morning.

BUT!

Call the Manufacturer and ask them, they made the gun... they should know.
Why "guess", call them and find out.
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This is the right answer. Who are you going to trust? The people who designed it, built it, and literally wrote the book on it, or "some guy on the computer" like me?
 
already been answered correctly just adding some useless babble

test out some ammo of the best +P's you can find and/or prefer. Do not shoot this ammo all the time but test it out and shoot it multiple times. At this point, leave it loaded w/the goods for "the instance we all hope never occurs but are ready for". When shooting for fun after all of the above just shoot regular rounds. This is what I did for my 38 situation & was told was ok by the retired cop who sold me the piece.

all the best
 
The fact that there are so many different answers,,,

Should be an indication that no one really knows for certain,,,
Which individual handguns can handle +P loadings.

Even if you contact the manufacturer,,,
You will get a lawyer response.

My take is to use the ammo the gun was designed for and nothing else.

My model numbered S&W pistols would probably handle +P just fine,,,
But I see no reason to push whatever envelope a gun has,,,
If I want magnum performance from a handgun,,,
I'll buy a magnum handgun.

JMHO

Aarond
 
The Ruger: absolutely OK with .38Spl+P...those are actually .357Mag guns with .38Spl cylinders...you could probably have the chamber holes reamed out for .357Mag and have no worries...except losing the collectors value (DA-Sixes in .38Spl are getting rarer by the day)...

The Cobra: absolutely NOT OK....not just from the construction aspect...but those derringers have a "healthy" amount of recoil in non-+P .38Spl....your hand would appreciate you not shooing +P ammo in it....
 
seeker

The Cobra: absolutely NOT OK....not just from the construction aspect...but those derringers have a "healthy" amount of recoil in non-+P .38Spl....your hand would appreciate you not shooing +P ammo in it....
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seeker, I have zero issue w/the recoil. You have me hands down on the construction bit w/the cobra. The biggest issue is just making sure I use hearing protection. I shot about 15 of my choice +P hollowpoints thru it, and that's the way I carry my derringer in case of an emergency. I agree just shooting it all the time with the wrong rounds is a bad idea. However, on other weapons it might be fine and the manual just sides with caution.
 
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