Options for mountain/backcountry gun..

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Wethepeople01

New member
I live in CO near the Rocky foothills and spend time in areas where mountain lion, coyotes and bear frequent. For EDC (city), I rotate my XDS 9mm, Glock 23 & Springfield XD 45 ACP (Compact 4"). I'm considering buying a 357 mag or 10mm down the road for backcountry down the road. As for now, the only options at my disposal are the .40 & .45 ACP. What should I carry/load with as a last resort for backcountry?
 
I carry a 357 Mag 8 shot revolver or a 44 Magnum in my area. Bear spray is a more effective option for the bear.

If you're committed to semiauto then get a 10 mm with hot loads, like the 40. The added velocity for a longer barrel will be more effective.

I'm not recoil sensitive so I prefer larger grain 357 or 44 Magnum. If I were in Grizzly country, still would prefer bear spray but I'd bring my 500 S&W or 460 XVR with 350 or 400 grain bullets.


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If your question is which gun you currently own would be best for defense against bears, then the answer is your .45. If you really want a good handgun for self defense against bears, then the answer is a Ruger Redhawk .44 magnum of your choice.
 
I usually carry my Commander in 45 loaded with cast Trunce cone bullets, Either the 40 or 45 should suffice. I'm really debating loading a "woods" magazine alternating between truncated bullets for penetration and shock, and hollowpoints that would be best against softer skin critters like cougar, coyotes and meth heads.
 
I usually carry my Commander in 45 loaded with cast Trunce cone bullets, Either the 40 or 45 should suffice. I'm really debating loading a "woods" magazine alternating between truncated bullets for penetration and shock, and hollowpoints that would be best against softer skin critters like cougar, coyotes and meth heads.
Click to expand...

I think you mean truncated...
 
Keep in mind the .450 SMC or .45 Super

The .450 SMC is designed to be used in minimally modified guns that were already rated for .45 ACP+P. The .450 SMC case (especially) has been designed with more brass in the casehead/webbing area.

For a 1911, "minimally modified" typically means at least square-bottom firing pin stop and heavy mainspring (hammer spring); or it may mean heavier recoil spring, recoil buffer, mag spring, and full-length guide rod; or all of the above.

For an XD .45, I'd probably want a heavier recoil spring, heavier mag springs (the stronger recoil spring will return the slide faster), and a frame shock buffer.

The first source listed below has even claimed that, while shooting .450 through an unmodified .45 ACP+P would accelerate wear and tear on the frame over time, a few shots to test it (make sure the pistol functions with the higher slide speed) and several emergency shots (if you ever need it) won't be enough to damage the pistol. Me? I'd modify the pistol to use with the more powerful round (or have a gunsmith modify it for me)--that's what the ammo maker recommends (second source; note: he recommends full-size pistols, not compacts like your XD).

Just food for thought. It's your bacon on the line.

Sources:
https://www.ammoland.com/2014/11/450-smc-ammo/
http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=303_354&product_id=742

PS: When it comes time to buy, 10mm all the way IMO.
 
When I'm in the woods here in the NC mountains I carry my Sig 2022 40cal. I'm more concerned about 2 legged critters than anything on 4 legs. I would not feel unprotected with either the 40 or any of my 45's.
 
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I'm certainly not a backwoods Guru, but do live in an area with National Forest all around and a population of bears, the occasional mountain lion, etc. I would be quite comfortable with a .357 revolver or the 10MM. Ballistics in service size pistols with good ammunition are quite similar. For instance, the Buffalo Bore .357 180 grain in my 4" and 5" revolvers averages approx. 1380 - 1400 fps. BB's 10MM 180 grain averages 1380 fps in my S&W semi-auto pistol with 5" barrel. Many prefer bigger calibers. I get it. I have a 4 3/4" barreled Freedom Arms .454 Casull myself, but I have never felt the need to carry it afield. If I lived in Alaska maybe. I too would be more concerned with the 2-legged critters;)

BTW, I used to own a .357 revolver of a type that might be appropriate for your use. The S&W L-Frame Mountain Gun. Seven rounds, lightweight 4" barrel and weighs no more than the K-Frame 357s.
 
My personal preference is a G29 in 10mm with a 3-4" 357 mag as a 2nd choice. I've owned the larger G20 for years, tried a smaller pistol in 40 S&W and I have two Smith 629's. One with a 4" barrel and the other with a 3" barrel. The bigger guns stay home, even when I've been camping in Yellowstone with grizzlies. The more probable threat is from 2 legged predators and I arm myself with that in mind, wildlife is secondary. Your G23 with Double Tap 200 gr loads @ 1100 fps is a viable contender. That is what I used before going with the G29.

http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=125_182&product_id=108

I live in north GA and spend a lot of time outdoors here, in east TN and western NC including the Smoky Mt NP. The Smokies and surrounding areas have one of the greatest concentrations of black bear anywhere in the US. Even though legal to carry in National Parks now it is best done very much concealed. The G29 gives the most power in the smallest package.

When hiking/backpacking weight is everything. My G20 is a lot smaller and over a pound lighter than my 4" revolver in 44 mag. Yet with the best loads in the 10mm compared to 44 loads from 3-4" barrels the difference is pretty insignificant. I get 1250-1300 fps with 200 gr hardcast in the 10mm, only 1150-1200 fps from 240 gr bullets in the 44. Yea, from longer barrels 357 and 44 are in another league, but I can't imagine carrying something that big around.

http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=303_301&product_id=594

I don't like 45 ACP with any bullet. Maybe hot loaded 45 Colt. Penetration is king, the better 357 caliber and 40 caliber bullets do a much better job of that.

Size comparison.

 
If I lived in Bear country I'd....

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yep, pack my 629-1 .44 Magnum and not lose any sleep over it.

But here in Texas a good .357 or 10mm will do anything needed to be done.

Deaf
 
If you are in Colorado, you have to worry about snakes too. A revolver with snake snake shot for the first shot followed by something more potent for bear may be your best bet. I like the idea of a compact 10 mm (such as Glock) as well, but most snake shot will not cycle semi-autos.
 
Good thing bears don't give folks a option, like read post fully and answer above question or die. Half of you would be dead right now. I don't think there is enough difference between the 40 and 45, go with what you feel most comfortable with. I've always carried a 1911 so I'll stay with the .45.
 
backwoods

We kick this around all the time. A conventional handgun against a grizzly or other dangerous bear is a marginal weapon at best, (seen the "Remnant")? Big powerful animal that can be there silently and in a flash. But.....I'd sure rather have one, and spray, than be unprepared at all. You have to have your head in the game in bear country too.

I think the G20 /10mm carries easily and is ultrarugged for the carry everywhere role, to be there when you may need it. A 1911 platform after that. I'm not a small guy, nor a wimp, but found the 6" magnums a pain to carry in a hip holster for any extended period of time. The 4" N-frame Mtn Guns from S&W carry a bit easier, and a heavy bullet .44 Mag, or a hot .45, would likely be next on my list. But the flatter, more compact autos carry easier than even the pared down Mtn Guns.

My G20 has largely retired my 4" Mtn Gun, and the 4-5/8" Blackhawk in the chest holster as well as a woods gun.
 
the only options at my disposal are the .40 & .45 ACP.
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If those are the only options I had, it would be the 45 ACP with FMJ for good penetration. 230 gr of course.

If I felt unprotected with that, then I would avoid venturing out and thus avoiding exposure to those critters.

We as humans have a tendency to avoid shady areas to prevent contact with bad guys, but think nothing of endangering ourselves with 4 legged critters.
 
Roll the dice with what you have now.

For the future, a 4-inch .357 with 180 gr. or heavier is a good option. I have a 686+ that I carry in a chest rig for woods carry.

Simultaneously, or by itself I feel great carrying my G29. I carry a second 15-round mag of 200 gr. hard cast.

Whatever you carry, for woods protection you need shot placement just as much as you would for urban carry. Wild animals cover ground very quickly so you'll have about 1-3 rounds to settle the matter. Train with whatever you decide to use.
 
Don't know if your XD is rated for +P. If it is, Underwoodammo.com offers a +P 255gr RNFP that averages 950 fps from two of my Kahr CW45s (3.64" barrel). This is equivalent to the original .45 Colt load that was speced by the military to shoot thru a horse at 200 yds.

Certainly adequate for cougar or coyote -- you have to decide if adequate for black bear.

Some other data points:

Underwoods 200gr +P Extreme Penetrator choned 1,008 fps (same CW45s)

Buffalo Bore's 230gr FNFMJ +P at 887 fps int the same gun(s).

Double Tap 200gr WFN .40 S&W at 920 fps from my 3.6" CW40.

All at 5 long paces from the muzzle and at temps ranging from 33 Deg F to 68 Deg F.

If you decided to use any of the above, make sure that it functions flawlessly in your individual handgun. The subcompacts can be a bit picky with some ammo.

I live in MT and my "always" gun is the CW45 carried in my left front pocket, loaded with the Underwood 255s or equiv. If I'm out woods bumming for any length of time, I add a.44 mag in a strong side pancake holster.

FWIW,

Paul
 
I asked the president of our local bear hunting club what gun they used to bear hunt. He said all they need to use is a Ruger revolver in 357 magnum. The dogs chase the bears up a tree and they shoot them out. It must work OK because they have done it for years and he is in his mid 70s.
 
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