Opinions wanted - Non-payment of child support?

What's to stop the guy who is legitimately "unable" to pay from going to court to get a reduction?

Simple arithmatic really. I'll give you a personal example. My Child support was set while I was a Sergeant in the Army. I was making more then than once I got out and got an hourly job. I wanted a reduction. She decided to fight it. I then needed an attorney. Attorneys around here are cheap if you only get charged $125.00 per hour.

Now if $380 a MONTH is too high to pay, then how ya gonna come up with the minimum of around $800.00 that most attorneys ask for up front to take such a case? What happens when the ex decides to drag out the process and bleed you a while by having her attorney write lots of letters that need lots of responses from your attorney at an average of $60.00 per letter? What happens if your ex is dating the attorney doing the blood-letting on you and gets her services for free?

I see that a lot of folks here have never experienced a bitter divorce nor dealt with the family court system. The realities are quite different than the stereotypes pushed in the media. Your average "dead-beat" dad is an hourly employee, not a stock broker or a physician. I also wonder how on Earth all these women who claim to know how much their ex's make a year know that? Situations change. My income went from $1800 a month in the Army to $200.00 based on a disability retirement from the Army (I still get the PX though). Being Field Artillery for nine years doesn't open many doors in the civilian world. Not many employers in Texas or anywhere else are looking for that skill-set. Getting new skills costs money.

What you think you know and what you do know are two different things.
BTW- I actually paid my CS and was ahead the whole time and still was sentenced to 30 days in jail for non-payment and only a month later did they finally realize that I was a month ahead rather than behind. Oops!
 
She decided to fight it. I then needed an attorney. Attorneys around here are cheap if you only get charged $125.00 per hour.

Why do you need an attorney? You fill out the form and at the top write "pro per" or "pro se", bring all your paperwork and tell the judge why you think you should get a reduction. If there wasn't the option of you reupping in the Army to maintain your current level of pay, or even an increase in rank and pay to motivate you to stay, or if he thought that your change of jobs to a lower payscale was reasonable when balanced against your obligation to support your offspring, he may very well have given you a reduction.

BTW- I actually paid my CS and was ahead the whole time and still was sentenced to 30 days in jail for non-payment and only a month later did they finally realize that I was a month ahead rather than behind. Oops!

Well, if you can prove that, then you and your your kids shouldn't have any money problems for a long time.
 
Well, if you can prove that, then you and your your kids shouldn't have any money problems for a long time.

I suppose you haven't heard of the term "Soveriegn Immunity" huh? It's a little principal that exempts the government from decisions made in good faith by judges, legislators and many others. It allows them to do their jobs without worry of losing everything and in general is a good principle. Our legal system as well as our whole system of government would have a hard time functioning without it. Mistakes happen. In my case it happened to be a bad one.

What about when Attorney General John Cornyn garnished my wages for non-payment, and again I was ahead? I ended up losing $6K on that deal, and no, I didn't get the money back from the ex. She spent it, and NO I couldn't withhold future payments of child support because of an erroneous garnishment. Do you think that the AG went after the ex for her fruadulent claim to get a welfare check? What about the felonious statement made to obtain welfare (to get a welfare check for your kids, you have to state that your ex is not paying CS)? My experience is that women are generally exempt from the teeth of the family court. At least in the 245th Judicial District Court in Harris County, TX.

Again- a case of thinking you know the situation when you really don't. Showing up to court without an attorney in my opinion and in my experience is idiocy to an extreme. Perhaps people who show up to court without an attorney should lose their rights to keep and bear arms because they've shown themselves to be mentally incompetent or at least highly unaware of the consequences of their actions. You don't save money by acting as your own attorney---EVER.

Besides, you don't just fill out a paper in Texas. You go through the whole process as any modification to a divorce decree opens the whole thing up again just like going through the divorce all over. In order to open the case, you just about have to have an attorney unless you are good at writing legal documents. If you're that good, you wouldn't be piddling with a $380.00 CS reduction, you'd be filing motions!

If you want to deal in reality, let's deal. If you want to deal in what you think reality is, then I'm not playing. In principle, you should support your kids. What happens when your kid is adjudicated an adult for a heinous crime and goes to prison? Think your CS stops automatically? Maybe in principle, but I know of two people who were garnished. One had a son in prison for life (so he stopped paying) and another had a kid who DIED.

Oh- and you think that's funny- wait until you read this: For two years straight, I did not see my children. I made every trip which amounted to driving 150 miles one-way, every other weekend and each time, was denied. In most cases, the kids were someplace else. Again- I had to get an attorney. Contempt of court was filed, and she was held in contempt. Unfortunately for me, the judge didn't fine her because "it would only come out of the mouth's of the kids." Think he threw her in jail? Nope- "who would take care of the kids?" Absolutely nothing happened to her except a verbal scourging about how important fathers are to the development of their daughters. She cried during it too. As we walked out and she looked over at me, she grinned- obviously impressed at how she played the judge so well. Two years of paying child support and never seeing your kids. TWO YEARS! Think you can stop your end of the bargain because the ex stops her's? Keep thinking! I'll never get those years back. In fact, if you factor every hour I've seen them, and every dollar I've paid to their upkeep, it comes out to about $7500.00 per hour. Great bargain huh?

You see, Child Support isn't linked to visitation rights in Texas nor anywhere else that I am aware of. Even if she runs off with them and never lets you see them, you must keep paying. You don't get your money back and you'll never get the time back that you lost. When your kids need psychiatric treatment for the way that they were treated by their mother guess who'll have to pay the bills?

And don't try to pull the "fight for custody" thing. Did that. Sold everything, even guns to afford it and went into debt so deep that I had to file bankruptcy. Think a father has a chance in hell of getting custody in most courts in Texas or the US for that matter? What if the mother is committed to a psychiatric hospital for suicide attempts? NOT A CHANCE! Everybody knows that "the calves don't follow the bulls around the pasture" as one Houston Judge so eloquently put it as he denied a man with a worse situation custody from an even worse ex.

If life was cut and dried like you imagine it to be, we wouldn't need those things called courtrooms and judges (and lord we need some good judges)!

Rights are rights and the RKBA's is pretty high on my list. The only people in my book who lose it are those who are CURRENTLY incarcerated.
 
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I suppose you haven't heard of the term "Soveriegn Immunity" huh? It's a little principal that exempts the government from decisions made in good faith by judges, legislators and many others.

You're not suing the judge, you're suing the county for the clerical error that resulted in you being wrongfully charged.

Again- a case of thinking you know the situation when you really don't. Showing up to court without an attorney in my opinion and in my experience is idiocy to an extreme. Perhaps people who show up to court without an attorney should lose their rights to keep and bear arms because they've shown themselves to be mentally incompetent or at least highly unaware of the consequences of their actions. You don't save money by acting as your own attorney---EVER.

I've sued a half dozen people over the past 10 years and didn't pay an attorney a dime. 4 of them were renters who all hired lawyers to counter my suits and the other two were contractors who screwed up work they did for me who also had lawyers.

Why didn't you stay in the army if you couldn't afford the pay cut? I'd love to quit my job but I can't afford the pay cut right now.
 
I am betting it was because he was disabled? Now before you think I have a crystal ball here, I can let you in on a secret that the answer lies somewhere in front of you as you read this. Also, while you are looking that direction do you know who George Mason was and what he wasn't and did not like while we are on the topic of rights?
 
Frank, Frank, Frank, :rolleyes:

You can't sue the county Frank. They didn't make a mistake. Those payments were recorded correctly by the people recording them. The judge made a judgement that was outside the law. She just figured that payments are recorded in a way that they are not. Hence, she made a judgement based on ignormance of the law- go figure. It was only the dilligent work of my attorney afterwards that got me out while they figured the law out, and only because her firm decided that this was just too unjust to allow and went Pro-Bono to fix the problem. Again- you can't sue a judge for a mistake in interpreting the law and the best legal minds in the country just don't seem to be flocking to the legislatures to fix the problems in family court.

Small claims court and JP court, and Criminal Court for that matter are places where overall, the Constitution still has some authority. Small claims court is designed specifically for problems like yours with tennants where you don't need an attorney. If that is the scope of your experience in court, then you are speaking from incredible ignorance now.

When one of your renters has a kid that falls off the roof and becomes "disabled" because you didn't fix some attractive nuissance in your place, and you find out that they've contacted Clark, Depew and Tracey and you recieve your summons, my guess is that you'll likely walk into court with an attorney.

Oh- and yes, when the Army says they are "retiring" you on disability retirement, you don't get a choice to stay. When your physician says that you are now unable to perform your duties, the Army kinda frowns on keeping soldiers like that. I suppose I should sue the Army for violating the ADA now huh? :rolleyes:

I'm through here. You can pmail me with any more advice you might have on this subject. Normally I admire your responses on this board, but I have to say I am disappointed here.
 
Deadbeat dads deserve everyone's contempt

That said. Stripping away your bill of rights for a non violent event is utter BS.
 
I see that a lot of folks here have never experienced a bitter divorce nor dealt with the family court system. The realities are quite different

That would be me. I'm with my first wife, my only two kids, and the kids are grown. I can see that in principle, what I said was right. But reality can be very different. I can see from reading your posts kjm that you're being screwed by your ex & the State. Vindictive women abuse the backing available from the state and use it as a weapon to twist the knife a little deeper. I sympathize with your situation, and you don't sound like an irresponsible whiner.

It's easy to sit back in an easy chair and make blanket statements about something you've never had to deal with, on the presumption that if I can do it so can anyone else. The principle is still there and is good, but we all know there's exceptions to the rule about everything. From what I can tell, this seems to be the case here. (And the State will technicality you to death and declare themselves heros, that they were there to help.)

I hear that they cancel peoples drivers licenses if they get behind in CS payments, and you can't get it back until you're caught up again. But then, hows a guy supposed to get to work to make money to be able to pay?
 
Yeah,
Guys get screwed. The lesson though is to pick a good one the first time. I did much better the second time around! Still, I don't see that rights are subject to removal for any reason except incarceration, and then after incarceration, one should regain a right of self-defense. It is one of those rights that simply cannot be abridged. Not for non-payment of child support, or any other reason. What's next? Non-payment of a utility bill? Give an inch now in the spirit of cooperation, you'll lose several miles, inch, by rotten inch. Just look at what happened since 1968.

A general theme throughout history is that once rights are lost, they are almost never regained except at the point of bloodshed, and so every right for everybody should be vigorously protected. I feel as strongly about a man's right to burn the flag as I do about KBA's. Not-One-Inch.
 
I see that a lot of folks here have never experienced a bitter divorce nor dealt with the family court system. The realities are quite different
Yep, I gotta pony up and say that I'm another one. I know reality in the court system ain't what many think it is.

Fortunately, I have never been through a divorce. I watched as my friends made mistakes, and by the time I married, most of them were divorced. I had the pleasure of raising and supporting my wife's children from her first marriage. After we got married, I simply told her not to worry about child support anymore. She had been nickel and dimed to death. If her ex bought the kids a snowcone, he deducted it from thier child support. I figured I married those kids too, and I have never regretted providing for them. They have made me very proud. It has been a privilege to help them get statred in life. Thier biological father may have saved a few bucks, but he sure missed out on a lot. FWIW, when she stop asking, he stopped paying anything at all. I was just happy to not have to look at him. His money was not worth the aggravation.
 
When one of your renters has a kid that falls off the roof and becomes "disabled" because you didn't fix some attractive nuissance in your place, and you find out that they've contacted Clark, Depew and Tracey and you recieve your summons, my guess is that you'll likely walk into court with an attorney.

No more rentals. Sold em....Which I regret doing.....

and yes, when the Army says they are "retiring" you on disability retirement, you don't get a choice to stay

Well, I apologize then, but when you said "...I got out..." I infered that you took some action yourself to get out as opposed to being pushed out.

There's no doubt that some people get screwed by incompetent judges, but I hate to "judge" when hearing only one side of the story. And if there's any case I've learned that you need to hear both, if not more, sides of the story, it's divorce/family trouble/custody/child support strories.
 
True enough. There's usually a lot of lying and overexaggeration on both sides. My own parents didn't believe me until they went to court and saw for themselves. It precisely the reason why I am not in favor of touching any rights based on any civil matter period. Criminal matters are easy. You have a victim and that victim is usually quite clear. Civil matters involve pride, arrogance, and vindictiveness and hence, motivate somebody enough, they'll do anything- even lie under oath.

There are incredible amounts of men accused of molestation when it comes to custody battles. Texas largely did away with that when they passed a law saying accusations of this nature that come out after the divorce has been filed are inadmissible. Still, I wonder how many men were painted with that stripe? Even if you're totally innocent, the jury will be loathe to give you the kids.

My ex was OK until I got remarried and then she got bitter and nasty and willing to do anything to bring me down. Once she had fended off my custody dispute, she totally neglected the kids and still does to a large degree. It just goes with the territory.

Keep rights invioloate
 
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