I would shoot it. It isn't going to devalue the weapon, unless it is an original never before fired still in its presentation box, if it had one. Then I would probably not fire it if I purchased it as, a collectors piece. Which is fine and dandy if you were an immortal. Its yours forever. But someone else who may eventually posses that weapon, whether family or stranger, may not think like you and decide their going to hunt or target shoot with it. So just enjoy it.
Opinions on firing a rare or expensive gun?
- Thread starter blabablab
- Start date
There are guns you buy and shoot and in some cases sell.
There are guns gifted with some story attached that you shoot but would never sell.
I have a flint lock French model ANXII pistol (1812) my grandfather bought so long a go I was a kid that I have never shot... same for another gift with a story, a very cool Remington .41 rimfire double derringer(1888-1891).
Do you run around shooting grandpa's model 38 Marlin made in the 1920s... sure but there is a chance it will break.
I have lots of older firearms, some worth a pretty penny but most are shot once in a while and most have a story attached, however there are a few that are better off not shot but admired only.
There is sedimental value associated with some guns as in some vehicles, low milage but in excellent condition!
There are guns gifted with some story attached that you shoot but would never sell.
I have a flint lock French model ANXII pistol (1812) my grandfather bought so long a go I was a kid that I have never shot... same for another gift with a story, a very cool Remington .41 rimfire double derringer(1888-1891).
Do you run around shooting grandpa's model 38 Marlin made in the 1920s... sure but there is a chance it will break.
I have lots of older firearms, some worth a pretty penny but most are shot once in a while and most have a story attached, however there are a few that are better off not shot but admired only.
There is sedimental value associated with some guns as in some vehicles, low milage but in excellent condition!
If it was New-In-Box or so rare that replacement parts were unobtainable... I might not shoot it.
Otherwise, "Is gun. Is made to shoot."
An acquaintance of mine was wealthy enough to be able to collect and race antique racing cars. The collector types were appalled to see rock chips, oil streaks, and the occasional dent. Bo was unfazed; "These are racing cars. This is what they're *for*."
Seemed logical to me...
Otherwise, "Is gun. Is made to shoot."
An acquaintance of mine was wealthy enough to be able to collect and race antique racing cars. The collector types were appalled to see rock chips, oil streaks, and the occasional dent. Bo was unfazed; "These are racing cars. This is what they're *for*."
Seemed logical to me...
I wouldnt fire it if it's a RARE piece
If it's actually a RARE GUN, I would never risk firing it, the history and rarity is more important than firing it, if something breaks on a rare gun , it will be a big loss, not just in money but history.
I have a Mint Russian SKS that appears to have never been fired, I keep it as a collectable
I have a well used Chi Com that is my range gun
I probably wouldnt even bother buying a RARE gun, because all your doing is paying to store it until you pass it on to the next guy, your just the caretaker.
a Expensive gun that is Not rare, but cost a lot of money, yes I would shoot it
If it's actually a RARE GUN, I would never risk firing it, the history and rarity is more important than firing it, if something breaks on a rare gun , it will be a big loss, not just in money but history.
I have a Mint Russian SKS that appears to have never been fired, I keep it as a collectable
I have a well used Chi Com that is my range gun
I probably wouldnt even bother buying a RARE gun, because all your doing is paying to store it until you pass it on to the next guy, your just the caretaker.
a Expensive gun that is Not rare, but cost a lot of money, yes I would shoot it
Bushmaster1313
New member
Life is too short to not shoot your best guns
Jbar4Ranch
New member
I've shot my Liberator six, maybe seven, times with reduced .45acp loads. I probably won't shoot my Gyrojet because I only have six rounds for it, and they're pretty pricey.
Very thought provoking comments in this thread, and the poll results surprise me! (I would have thought more people would choose the "keep in the safe" option. I have been struggling with this issue for a while- several comments really making an impression on me, such as:
- risk of breaking a numbered part- rare Luger P08 versus vintage Colt SAA
- mint NIB unfired, versus older gun obviously fired
- can't take them with you, so enjoy them now
- do I really want to be a caretaker and tie up $ ? or... call it an investment
- trade 1 collectable for 2 or 3 special shooters
Ah well.. Each has to settle this issue for one's self. I have a matching P08 Luger with one matching mag- I am SO tempted to shoot it just to see what that's like- BUT if after the 5th round or so, I would break the slide or kill the toggle... I would NOT be happy. So I'll have to wait for the paperwork on my recently acquired P08 shooter to come through- only 7 more months. (Dutch law)
Have to learn some patience I guess. And practise with my refinished ac43 P38 shooter. The collector's piece is the first Luger I have ever seen let alone bought, so that makes it special. I originally bought it with the intention to shoot it, and then got into the discussion of "breaking a numbered part."
- risk of breaking a numbered part- rare Luger P08 versus vintage Colt SAA
- mint NIB unfired, versus older gun obviously fired
- can't take them with you, so enjoy them now
- do I really want to be a caretaker and tie up $ ? or... call it an investment
- trade 1 collectable for 2 or 3 special shooters
Ah well.. Each has to settle this issue for one's self. I have a matching P08 Luger with one matching mag- I am SO tempted to shoot it just to see what that's like- BUT if after the 5th round or so, I would break the slide or kill the toggle... I would NOT be happy. So I'll have to wait for the paperwork on my recently acquired P08 shooter to come through- only 7 more months. (Dutch law)
Have to learn some patience I guess. And practise with my refinished ac43 P38 shooter. The collector's piece is the first Luger I have ever seen let alone bought, so that makes it special. I originally bought it with the intention to shoot it, and then got into the discussion of "breaking a numbered part."
I shoot my 1920 Commercial/"alphabet" Luger every year, putting 100 rounds through it in a friendly competition with a friend.
The gun wasn't in collectible condition when I got it, so no worries about reducing the value of it with a barrel change and refinish.
The last time I shot it, the firing pin retainer broke, a part of it fell down inside the frame, and while removing the grips to get access to it, the mainspring guide broke.
Neither part is serialized, so even if the gun had been numbers-matching, repair wouldn't change that.
But, the reason the retainer broke was because of damage to the breechblock caused by 90 years of shooting. The breechblock is a serialized part, and if the gun had been numbers-matching, and I wanted to maintain that, I'd have to decide to try to repair the original breechblock, replace it with a non-matching one for shooting, or just retire the gun from use.
Every time you shoot an old gun, you risk damaging it.
The gun wasn't in collectible condition when I got it, so no worries about reducing the value of it with a barrel change and refinish.
The last time I shot it, the firing pin retainer broke, a part of it fell down inside the frame, and while removing the grips to get access to it, the mainspring guide broke.
Neither part is serialized, so even if the gun had been numbers-matching, repair wouldn't change that.
But, the reason the retainer broke was because of damage to the breechblock caused by 90 years of shooting. The breechblock is a serialized part, and if the gun had been numbers-matching, and I wanted to maintain that, I'd have to decide to try to repair the original breechblock, replace it with a non-matching one for shooting, or just retire the gun from use.
Every time you shoot an old gun, you risk damaging it.
"1800.00 is a lot of money to pay for a gun, way too much to pay for one you're not gonna shoot."
That's another way to look at it of course.
Any special suggestions re. ammo for a 9 mm P08? Our LGS suggested subsonic 150 gr Luger 9 mm. I tried it in my ac43 P38, and so far the Walther seems to be happy. But before I try that in my Luger shooter, I really want to make SURE it is not too much Most are suggesting SV FMJRN 115 gr or 124 gr 9 mm Luger. (not so easy to get here) Are there charts available which show the pressures recommended for P38 and Luger P08 against the pressures generated by different types of ammo? Have looked for these but, until now, in vain.
Thanks
That's another way to look at it of course.
Any special suggestions re. ammo for a 9 mm P08? Our LGS suggested subsonic 150 gr Luger 9 mm. I tried it in my ac43 P38, and so far the Walther seems to be happy. But before I try that in my Luger shooter, I really want to make SURE it is not too much Most are suggesting SV FMJRN 115 gr or 124 gr 9 mm Luger. (not so easy to get here) Are there charts available which show the pressures recommended for P38 and Luger P08 against the pressures generated by different types of ammo? Have looked for these but, until now, in vain.
Thanks
If you do have an expensive firearm, don't be cheap and shoot old ammunition in the things. Few shooters know that ammunition deteriorates and the older it gets, the higher pressure it gets. This is due to gunpowder deterioration, gunpowder is a high energy compound that is breaking down the day it leaves the factory. Old ammunition has and will blow up firearms. A good rule of thumb is to shoot up all ammunition before it is 20 years old. Ammunition older than this is risky.
There has been a huge amount of cheap, military surplus ammunition on the market and it is not difficult to find accounts of weapons blown up with military surplus. This stuff was removed from military inventory because it was either to dangerous to keep in storage, or because it was too dangerous to issue. A couple of dangers to troops would be failure to function, or over pressure.
This link is from manufacturer's of the FG42 rifle, a $5,000 modern copy of the original. I cannot imagine what an original would run, hundreds of thousands of dollars? SMG Guns specifically voids the warranty if surplus ammunition is fired in their firearms, not because they are mean and nasty, or are ignorant, but because they have found that old military surplus will blow up guns. The pictures of a blown up FG42 is within the warnings on their page:
Ammo warnings/Info
http://smgguns.com/?page_id=965
As you can see, one $5,000 FG42 was reduced to a pile of junk with old military surplus ammunition. If you have something in this price range or up, I recommend you only shoot nice, new ammunition, and not go out on the cheap and fire old ammunition to save a buck.
There has been a huge amount of cheap, military surplus ammunition on the market and it is not difficult to find accounts of weapons blown up with military surplus. This stuff was removed from military inventory because it was either to dangerous to keep in storage, or because it was too dangerous to issue. A couple of dangers to troops would be failure to function, or over pressure.
This link is from manufacturer's of the FG42 rifle, a $5,000 modern copy of the original. I cannot imagine what an original would run, hundreds of thousands of dollars? SMG Guns specifically voids the warranty if surplus ammunition is fired in their firearms, not because they are mean and nasty, or are ignorant, but because they have found that old military surplus will blow up guns. The pictures of a blown up FG42 is within the warnings on their page:
Ammo warnings/Info
http://smgguns.com/?page_id=965
As you can see, one $5,000 FG42 was reduced to a pile of junk with old military surplus ammunition. If you have something in this price range or up, I recommend you only shoot nice, new ammunition, and not go out on the cheap and fire old ammunition to save a buck.
Jim Watson
New member
Rshaw: Ezell reports the original 9mm P ammunition, as tested in the USA in 1903 to be:
Light: 8gm/124gr bullet + .35gm/5.4gr powder = 315 mps/1033 fps from 100mm barrel
Heavy: 8gm/124gr bullet + .38gm/5.9gr powder= 334 mps/1095 fps from 100mm barrel.
That makes the powder slightly slower burning than Alliant Power Pistol. I once read an account of the powder used in early 9mm being doped with inert material to get the pressure curve the same as for the load in 7.65 Luger.
But that was in the old "ribbon spring" gun. Will the coil spring action introduced in 1906 take a "hotter" load? I don't think it should.
I cannot say about your 150 gr subsonic, but a friend's 1923 Finn with 9mm Tikka replacement barrel shot better with my handloaded 145 gr subsonic than anything on the market. My S/42 P08 shot reliably with Canadian WWII surplus.*
Nobody says what pressure their ammunition develops. It might not stay the same as they get different powder next quarter anyhow. All you can know is that a reputable maker will not exceed the SAAMI or CIP maximum.
Lee Jurras, founder of Super Vel, once tested several varieties of German WWII 9mm.* Contrary to legends of great power, it was within commercial specifications for chamber pressure. Velocity of late war ammo was high because of lightweight ersatz bullet materials like sintered iron.
*My experience and Mr Jurras' tests were many years ago; the wartime ammunition was more than 20 years old, but not by much, obviously not so much as to be damagingly deteriorated as Slamfire warns against.
Light: 8gm/124gr bullet + .35gm/5.4gr powder = 315 mps/1033 fps from 100mm barrel
Heavy: 8gm/124gr bullet + .38gm/5.9gr powder= 334 mps/1095 fps from 100mm barrel.
That makes the powder slightly slower burning than Alliant Power Pistol. I once read an account of the powder used in early 9mm being doped with inert material to get the pressure curve the same as for the load in 7.65 Luger.
But that was in the old "ribbon spring" gun. Will the coil spring action introduced in 1906 take a "hotter" load? I don't think it should.
I cannot say about your 150 gr subsonic, but a friend's 1923 Finn with 9mm Tikka replacement barrel shot better with my handloaded 145 gr subsonic than anything on the market. My S/42 P08 shot reliably with Canadian WWII surplus.*
Nobody says what pressure their ammunition develops. It might not stay the same as they get different powder next quarter anyhow. All you can know is that a reputable maker will not exceed the SAAMI or CIP maximum.
Lee Jurras, founder of Super Vel, once tested several varieties of German WWII 9mm.* Contrary to legends of great power, it was within commercial specifications for chamber pressure. Velocity of late war ammo was high because of lightweight ersatz bullet materials like sintered iron.
*My experience and Mr Jurras' tests were many years ago; the wartime ammunition was more than 20 years old, but not by much, obviously not so much as to be damagingly deteriorated as Slamfire warns against.
Broken matching Erfurt
Hi All,
This site here below really got my attention.....
http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...+range+failure
That scared me off of firing my matching P08.....
Hi All,
This site here below really got my attention.....
http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...+range+failure
That scared me off of firing my matching P08.....
Range failure Erfurt P08
Another try- last link above didn't connect
http://luger.gunboards.com/showthre...lure&highlight=erfurt+artillery+range+failure
Another try- last link above didn't connect
http://luger.gunboards.com/showthre...lure&highlight=erfurt+artillery+range+failure
If it was Civil War ammunition, then it is black powder and from what I heard, as long as it is not wet, it will not cause the same problems that come from smokeless powders.
Now, if you have some 1890's smokeless cartridges, I would be curious to know what happens if you fire about 100 rounds or so.
A bud at the range, he has blown up machine guns shooting 1950's Yugo 8mm ammunition.
mapsjanhere
New member
We always shot everything, until a numbers matching C96 broke it's extractor out. $200 in parts, $200 in loss of value due to no-number bolt. Now I'm a bit more careful with guns past 100 years.
Thank you Mapsjanhere,
Your comments make it easier for me to refrain from firing my matching DWM and wait until my shooter paper work comes through. August 4, 2017 is the big day. My collector will be 100 years old, and the shooter 99. Am really thinking about a Swiss 06/29 in 7.65 mm... I don't know.. expensive. But a work of art this gun. In very good condition. I have time.
Your comments make it easier for me to refrain from firing my matching DWM and wait until my shooter paper work comes through. August 4, 2017 is the big day. My collector will be 100 years old, and the shooter 99. Am really thinking about a Swiss 06/29 in 7.65 mm... I don't know.. expensive. But a work of art this gun. In very good condition. I have time.