Open versus concealed carry

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Oh my God. You are SO wrong on SO many points that I already have a headache.
Please, cite links or posts to substantiate your position... Please try to.
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Or...you could point out the issues you have a problem with and cite links or posts that substantiate your position.

My thought is that you should be able to open carry if you want or conceal carry if that is your preference. I just wish every state had that choice. At this time I only carry concealed because that is my preference but that could change.
 
David White,

I'm not Theohazard, but I'd be happy to give you some facts to work with. That's much more interesting for other members than having to read emotional reactions without any content.

First, in some places it only provokes alarm and pushes more people against our cause.
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That would be what happened in California, which resulted in them outlawing even unloaded(!) open carry.

Balance that against the history of how activists passed the concealed carry law in the Buckeye State. You could look it up.

Second, open carry gives up a huge tactical advantage: The element of surprise and the ability to use your gun when and if you choose to.
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For that, I refer you to this post by JohnKSa. It's full of several fact-filled and fascinating real life events: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2917233&postcount=72

And third, your gun is far less likely to be snatched from your holster if no one knows you're carrying one in the first place.
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And for that, please see http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=470871.

pax
 
Sure, some cases have been found that showed someone was targeted for open carry, but those cases are few and far between.
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Just one such case should give one pause. The problem is real, and the risk is real.

I carry a gun to mitigate harm to my person. It's part of an equation including training, mindset, and practice. Why would I want to reintroduce an element of risk into an equation designed to reduce risk?

If someone wants to open carry, that's their call. If they want to do so in a holster with no retention, with minimal situational awareness, and when their only training in use of force includes an occasional plinking session at the range, they're placing themselves and others at risk.
 
Someone mentioned open carry as a defense to accidental display...
Texas has fixed their law

TEXAS PASSED BILLS
This following bills have been signed into law by Gov. Perry:
SB 299 Inadvertent display protects against charges of unlawful carry for the inadvertent or accidental display of a handgun by a Concealed Handgun Licensee (CHL). (Effective 9/1/13)
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Wow, I knew how this thread was going to go, before I opened it. I like the freedom of OC and I do it quite a lot in the warm weather.
Where I'm going usually dictates my mode of carry. Busy streets of say, Philadelphia, wouldn't be a place I would open carry. Knowing your suroundings is a priority if your going to OC.
 
I agree that one incident should cause one to pause. The problem and risk are real, but how many incidents are there of a person being targeted due to the fact that they were unarmed? I see pro's and con's on each side. Once again, I am happy that I live in a state where I can choose depending on my situation.
 
pax said:
David White,

I'm not Theohazard, but I'd be happy to give you some facts to work with. That's much more interesting for other members than having to read emotional reactions without any content.



That would be what happened in California, which resulted in them outlawing even unloaded(!) open carry.

Balance that against the history of how activists passed the concealed carry law in the Buckeye State. You could look it up.



For that, I refer you to this post by JohnKSa. It's full of several fact-filled and fascinating real life events: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2917233&postcount=72



And for that, please see http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=470871.

pax
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Thanks bro but I have all the facts I need. I don't think I have ever run across a gun forum with such delinquent facts related to open carry in my thirty plus years of carrying a firearm.
Scaring people?, Having your gun "snatched?", hassled by cops?
What part of the world do you all live in?

Concealed carry gives you the element of "surprise"! Are you serious? Explain to me how you have ANY element of surprise when you have a BG's weapon in your face? Seems to me that is the weakest argument ever made for CC.
If it works so well, why don't our Law enforcement officers employ it! I'll tell you why. It is a show of force. It implies authority along with the uniform.
If you find yourself facing down a bad guy with his own weapon, your situational awareness has failed you greatly. You let me know how you have the element of surprise then.. You don't. You are effectively "behind the curve".
Criminals don't chose victims with situational awareness and with all forms of carry comes a responsibility to be aware of your environment.
 
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As so often happens when someone has an emotional attachment to an argument.

Don't confuse with the facts, my mind's already made up!
 
Good for you. Stand up for your principles like a man and I'll stand right next to you but only if you are armed with facts, not hyperbole or conjecture or Fear.
 
IMHO open carry is like if the military during a war publicized their troop strength, locations, armament, and supplies. A weak enemy might be deterred by this show of force, but a strong one will use this information to their advantage.
 
You were presented with facts, rejected them out of hand and then present conjecture and hyperbole and then you disparage those who presented the facts, claiming that they have done what you have, in fact, done?

Fascinating.

Not convincing, in the least, but... fascinating.
 
Armed_Chicagoan said:
IMHO open carry is like if the military during a war publicized their troop strength, locations, armament, and supplies. A weak enemy might be deterred by this show of force, but a strong one will use this information to their advantage.
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Well then. It's a good thing we are not "advertising" all we have to the enemy.
 
Brian Pfleuger said:
You were presented with facts, rejected them out of hand and then present conjecture and hyperbole and then you disparage those who presented the facts, claiming that they have done what you have, in fact, done?

Fascinating.

Not convincing, in the least, but... fascinating.
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I stand by my post. Nothing BUT hyperbole, conjecture or speculation has been presented concerning open carry.
Nothing but scary "camp fire" stories to scare us all straight.
It comes as no shock though that the loudest voices against OC come from the CC crowd.
Classic "do as I say". I know the facts better than you so.... Trust me.
No thanks.
 
You are a master of confusing the issue by accusing others of things that you are doing yourself, I can see that.

Several posts by Pax and others have presented FACTS, while your posts about being "behind the curve" and situational awareness are, in fact, the very definition of hyperbole and conjecture.
 
Brian Pfleuger said:
You are a master of confusing the issue by accusing others of things that you are doing yourself, I can see that.

Several posts by Pax and others have presented FACTS, while your posts about being "behind the curve" and situational awareness are, in fact, the very definition of hyperbole and conjecture.
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Once again. I stand by my posts. I am not in the market for fear today, thank you.
I'll continue to carry openly, as I have for many years, with no "terror" from the masses. With no "fear" of being targeted first, and no "worry" about having my gun snatched thank you very much!
 
And no one ever said you couldn't or shouldn't.

You asked for facts and got them. You rejected them out of hand.

No one said you couldn't do that, either, but don't accuse others of using hyperbole and conjecture when they have presented facts and you have rejected them in favor of conjecture and hyperbole.
 
We don't have open carry in Texas, but I know it would make me uncomfortable to see someone doing it even if it was legal. Can't imagine wearing a pistol in a hip holster into a place of business. Especially a bank, or a post office, or grocery store. Or 7-11. Unless you are wearing a badge. Contrary to a lot of people's perception of Texas, it ain't the Old West any more.
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It's illegal to carry in a post office. But why would you think it is ok for a cop and not for anyone else to carry? Are they better than us? Safer than us? If you depend on the cop to defend you in 7-11 then why carry a gun anywhere? Wearing a badge does not give you more privilege or rights so please explain why a person with a badge should be allowed to open carry and the rest of us not.

6. Do I want to scare strangers? Some might be uncomfortable.
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I could not care less whether someone is uncomfortable if I speak or if I vote or if I lock my door at night and keep the police out without a warrant or if I refuse to testify against myself or if I refuse to house soldiers in peace time or if attend the church of my choice or if I don't attend a church at all.

And I don't care if someone is uncomfortable with me carrying a gun, either.

All of that said, I never open carry - or hardly ever. I really wish everyone open carried then those who might want to take someone's openly carried gun would never try but it just ain't so.

The only times I have open carried have been when I concealed under a jacket and it was too hot in the store. I have taken my jacket off and not worried about it. When I got cool enough, I put the jacket back on.

My preference, though, would be to open carry 100% of the time.
 
David, if you would actually read my posts instead of simply reacting to them, you would know two things about me.

1) You would know why it was inappropriate to address me as "bro," and

2) You would know that I am not against open carry at all.

You don't know either one of those things, because you have an extreme emotional reaction to this discussion. That's too bad – it makes it hard to carry on a meaningful conversation where people who aren't already cheering for you might learn something.

pax
 
This has taken a simple subject down a winding road.

It's simple, pros and cons each way.

But the hard truth is that open carry is ok in some situations, but... It's simply not appropriate in most instances in public.
 
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