No, no, not at all. It's so pointless and hopeless that you should take your gun, screw it into your ear and...
So, I come here advocating supporting every ones right to carry how they choose, and you tell me to go home and shoot myself in the head? That's real professional. You're a moderator here, and you're posting that I should go home and screw my gun into my ear and.... Yup, that's real professional. You're a class guy.
I AM SUPERDOOPER HYPER AGENT NINJA MAN! NONE SHALL ESCAPE MY NOTICE! NONE SHALL ENCROACH UPON MY CIRCLE OF ABSOLUTE AWARENESS!
Show me where I said absolute awareness about absolutely everything going on around you. You won't find it. I said situational awareness, and talked about avoiding situations where your awareness of your surroundings would be hindered.
The flipside of that is, of course, unrealistic confidence bordering on, or becoming, narcissistic arrogance.
Nope. You're inferring my completely realistic EXPERIENCES with narcissistic arrogance. Out of the two of us, which one has experience open carrying. and which one is telling me how bad it is and how bad of a style of holster that I carried in for MONTHS is? Oh that's right....
History is littered with examples of of individuals who get so caught up in their own myth making that they never see the kill punch coming.
You should probably check yourself before you post such asinine comments as this. You're telling me that I'm so caught up with "my own myth" that I'm gonna get shot with my own gun, and then in the next breath telling me that a retention strap is a must have to avoid gun grabs... Right-o then.
Can you realistically say to me, or anyone, that you can have, and maintain, 100% situational awareness at all times to the degree that it would negate being ambushed?
With as much confidence as you can say to me that you're gun will never be taken from you by a BG because you use an active retention holster.
Show me once where I said exactly what you're accusing me of saying, that I can maintain 100% situational awareness 100% of the time. You won't find it because I didn't say it, you're putting words in my mouth. I said maintaining situational awareness was the key to avoiding a gun grab, and that I avoided situations where I knew it would hinder my situational awareness and make me succeptable to an attack, ie being in a crowd.
You want to bring up that word "MYTH." Okay, let's do that. Find me a documented case where an OC'ers gun was grabbed and he was shot with it. Nope, sorry, LEO's being shot with his own gun doesn't count because I don't have to put myself in the same positions as his job description entails him to.
the open carry movement has done more to harm gun rights in American as anything.
Oh, it has? Okay, show me. Last time I checked, the open carry movement are full of the people standing up for OUR gun rights. It's harmed gun rights? Oh, is that why all 50 states have a legal form of carry now? Is that why the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals overturned restrictions on carrying concealed in California? Is that why Georgia just passed expansions to their gun laws making carry in more places legal and easier? Yup... I see it. Open Carrying is REALLY killing the gun rights in this country.......
Get over the wild west days/mentality and carry concealed.
Way to make the anti-gun sides argument for them. Good job!
You're aware that in the wild west, when you rode into town you had to surrender your weapon to the Sheriff until you left town right? And the only people in town who were in possession of firearms were the Sheriff and the outlaws who didn't follow the law anyway? Yeah, we're reallllly living in the wild west.
As far as "carry concealed." No. I'll carry how I want to carry. If I want to carry openly today, I will. If I want to carry concealed tomorrow, I will. The way I conduct my business and how I choose to carry my defense weapon is not based on what YOU think is best or what makes you comfortable. It's based on what I deem best for ME.
I saw a man get robbed in a parking lot of a strip mall down at the coast. He was just up in front of us walking to his car just as we were. A man came walking past us in a bit of a hurry. As he just passed the man he took a step in and back up very fast knocking the man down. He hit him once in the face took his wallet and ran. All over in a few seconds.
Was he armed? Was he openly carrying? Was he concealed carrying? My wager to both of those questions would be no. I refuse to sit here and be told that Jon Doe keeps the same sort of situational awareness as any of us that carry. Because again, based on EXPERIENCE, ya know, the thing you gain when you ACTUALLY do something, my situational awareness and how much I observed what was going around me changed DRAMATICALLY when I started carrying. Look at anyone walking down the street. Headphones in, staring at their phone etc. No one pays attention. UNLESS, you carry, you've put some thought into how to act when you carry, you've got some-sort of on the fly defense plan set it your head. But I suppose on TFL, that makes me a TACTICOOL WANNABE MALL NINJA right?
Open carry scares the mothers, kids and old people.
No it doesn't. That's a complete and utter lie. Out of all the people who came up and talked to me when I was open carrying, over half were single mothers inquiring if that was legal because they wanted to be able to protect themselves and their kids, elderly people, usual old ladies or veterans, thanking me for exercising the rights that they or their loved ones fought for, and, *GASP* kids. I had a kid come up to me at Walmart, and ask if I was a police officer. When I told him I wasn't, he said "THAT'S SO COOL!!" went back and told his dad, who looked at me and gave me a thumbs up. Another time I was in the bathroom at Gander Mountain, when a boy and his dad came in. The kid looked at me, and looked at his dad and said "DADDY! HE'S GOT A GUN JUST LIKE YOU." Dad and I nodded, and continued on our way. So the "scaring the women, children, and elderly" is a false argument.
In this fight together? The only fighting I see is from the likes of you, who are apparently "Open Carry at All Costs!" and can accept no implication that there might be a better or different way to do things.
In this fight together as on the same side of the gun rights argument.
I am no more implying "OPEN CARRY AT ALL COSTS" than you are blatantly telling people that open carry is bad, and a passive retention holster is bad, and blah blah blah.
As to all your other blathering, I have neither the time nor inclination to respond to it. There's more straw man arguments and other logical fallacies there than I would have thought could be fit in a single post.
You should read some of your posts, and your other cohorts posts then, because there are far more of your straw man arguments in all of those posts than mine. At least I'm the one talking from personal experience of open carrying, versus simply telling people that it is wrong based on some preconceived notion.
It's funny. You accuse me of "straw man" arguments, but then can't seem to find any facts or evidence to prove that I'm wrong, and instead tell me "you've got better things to do." Why is that? Could it possibly be because you can't produce a valid counter argument? Yup, I believe that would be it.
This thread is going the same way that open carry threads always go. Anyone with the slightest concern over ANY open carry practice is immediately labeled as "Anti Open Carry" and a bunch of folks who never post on other topics and/or suddenly join the forum just for that particular thread go bat crap crazy on any one who dares question the wisdom of any practice.
There was no "slight concern" over open carry. There was blatant and subliminal insults that open carry was bad, and that someones personal holster choice was bad, etc. And then I came on and made a few counter points based on EXPERIENCE, everyone jumped down my throat. Apparently this is a forum only for those that agree with each other, which clearly i am not "ONE OF YOU." What's funny is that I'm sure everyone of you think that I am PRO-OPEN CARRY, and part of the "open carry movement." If any of you had any sort of reading comprehension at all, you would have been able to figure out that I am PRO-CARRY, regardless of how you choose to do it. If you look back at my original post, I even said that I conceal carry the majority of the time.
It's unfathomable to me that you could post that diatribe and accuse ME of "jumping down his throat". Such is the Open Carry movement, as we've seen over and over again.
My first post was full of concise points based on facts and experience, and then you all jumped down my throat because it didn't jive with everyone's belief here that the ONLY WAY TO DO SOMETHING IS YOUR WAY!!! EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG!!!!
Yeah, nice try....again.
Anyone who wants to know what my point about all of your ridiculous replies to the first post was, read zincs post
zincwarrior said:
One more note. Did this one come with the usual deal of holster, mag holder, and multiple spare mags? Springfield always had a lot of value in my book. A question. If this is OC why didn't you spring (pun unintended ) for a full size XDM?
EDIT: I see you're looking at CC as well, now I ca see why you'd get the XDS. As a note, if you're getting a CHL holster, most good CHL holsters would serve you in the OC capacity as well just fine. Some are "button retention" and some aren't. But when you get to that point, think about that for your CHL holster as well, with a view of getting one to do both (IF you're uncomfortable with the Sprinfield supplied one).
Even more EDITing:
*Again on the subject of holsters. I'm sure there are many threads on holsters but just to name a few good ones: Galco, Bianchi, Crossbreed; Safari; Comp-Tac; and Fobus for a value proposition. Others may disagree but I hate Uncle Mikes holsters - as in think they are committing fraud level hate.
Oh my... My oh my oh my... Do you see that? A post, in reply to the original topic, that didn't automatically condemn someone else's actions because he may not have agreed with them. A post that didn't berate about his holster choice.... A post that some ACTUAL advice, FRIENDLY, HELPFUL, NON-CONDEMNING ADVICE was posted in....
That was my whole point. Are we all not on the same side of the gun rights debate? Then why are we condemning the way a person chooses to carry to protect themself and their family in a public setting?
buck460XVR said:
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Irwin:
reductio ad absurdum much there, maestro?
Lotta that goin' on here. Here's a prime example....
Quote:
I get the inescapable feeling that far too many here think of themselves in terms of...
I AM SUPERDOOPER HYPER AGENT NINJA MAN! NONE SHALL ESCAPE MY NOTICE! NONE SHALL ENCROACH UPON MY CIRCLE OF ABSOLUTE AWARENESS!
Yeah. OK. Whatever. Maybe y'all can sell that concept to Stan Lee as a new superhero
No one here has stated or tried to infer anything close to that. Only stating that they feel more comfortable carrying open than not carrying at all, or that they are in a situation where there is little risk to open carrying. Others here are the ones trying to convince that any sort of open carry is much more dangerous than leaving the gun at home. Impossible to relate to one's journey, till you walk it in their shoes.
Another good example....
Quote:
30 ish % of cops are shot with their own guns. Think about it. Yes, it won't happen to you, you are better.
What does this statistic have to do with private citizens that open carry. Does that statement tell us how many of those cops were surprised and had their gun taken from retention? No, nor does it tell us how many of those same cops had their guns drawn in readiness, or how many had their gun taken away at gunpoint and not by a struggle. It also does not tell us that cops do not shy away from bad scenarios and situations,even when their awareness and senses tell them there is danger. Instead, they go on the offensive and pursue that danger. This is something the average Joe that carries to protect himself and the ones he is with, does not do. The average Joe does not think he is better than the average cop, he just knows he does not put himself in the same situations.
I think it's pretty funny that moderators here feel the need to use condescension and snide remarks to try and make a point. So much for leading by example. A correct example would be to express any concerns with real facts politely, with respect and allow folks to consider those concerns when making judgement or forming an opinion in their particular scenario as opposed to the use of snide comments and innuendos. Especially since we're supposed to be on the same side.
Buck, that's quite possibly the best post in this thread.
I just think it's funny that all of us here are in favor of the 2nd Amendment, but my ability to express my opinion is being stifled and insulted because it doesn't jive with your opinion. And on top of posting facts and real world experiences, no one can seem to counter my argument without calling me a mall ninja, or telling me that I should shoot myself in the head with my own gun.
Mike Irwin said:
No, no, not at all. It's so pointless and hopeless that you should take your gun, screw it into your ear and...
Yup, you're all a bunch of freedom loving American's here!! But only as long as the way I express my freedoms is the way you deem to be acceptable. Hypocritical much?
Can we ratchet that back a little guys. 
