One Shot Stops Database
- Thread starter Brian Pfleuger
- Start date
MarineCorpsAT
New member
I think that things like this need to be taken with a grain of salt.
It seems that the talk about caliber is a never ending one. Kinda reminds me of the Ford v chevy debate that never seems to end.
The reality is that there are so many variables that go into how well a bullet will stop the target that it hits that no study will be able to provide accurate all inclusive data. A BB can stop an attack if the attacker is not too determined so what does it prove? That anything is better than nothing.
With the differences in firearms the variables of size, shape, determination, and presence of other "substances" IE alcohol and drugs in the body of the attacker and the skill of the shooter all coming into play there will never be an all incompasing answer to the question of which caliber is better.
Really it all comes down to what you prefer and shoot best. but in saying that remember that ones personal preference does not mean that it is the best.
It seems that the talk about caliber is a never ending one. Kinda reminds me of the Ford v chevy debate that never seems to end.
The reality is that there are so many variables that go into how well a bullet will stop the target that it hits that no study will be able to provide accurate all inclusive data. A BB can stop an attack if the attacker is not too determined so what does it prove? That anything is better than nothing.
With the differences in firearms the variables of size, shape, determination, and presence of other "substances" IE alcohol and drugs in the body of the attacker and the skill of the shooter all coming into play there will never be an all incompasing answer to the question of which caliber is better.
Really it all comes down to what you prefer and shoot best. but in saying that remember that ones personal preference does not mean that it is the best.
This following is interesting, sort of, or maybe not, depending on the individual.
Back in the 80s I used the Speer 200 grain HP, over 11 grains of Unique in my .45 Colt and the 125 grain Sierra JHP over 18 grains of 2400 with a magnum primer, in my .357. At the time I felt like these were good defense loads, that would perform well given the then current state of bullet technology.
I currently use the Speer 250 grain Gold Dot over 17.5 grains of 2400 in .45 Colt and the 180 grain Nosler Partition HG over 14 grains of H110. While there are other acceptable choices that are currently available, I personally feel that those are two of the best preforming projectiles currently available.
L to R, Speer 200 grain JHP, Speer 250 grain GD, 125 grain Sierra, 180 grain Nosler HG.
Now the point of my post is, that although I believe that I'm using the best projectiles currently available in those calibers; would I feel at a great disadvantage, or under gunned if I were still using the loads I did in the 80s. The answer is no I would not. They are still fully capable of doing what they were intended to do, which is severely wound, kill and/or incapacitate someone.
Also at that time I used the 200 grain SWC, 230 grain FMJ or the Remington 230 grain HP for SD loads in my .45 ACPs, although I now use the 230 grain XTP in my .45 ACPs, I feel the same way about all of those, I would still use them and feel confident.
Round nose lead, full metal jacket and lead semi wadcutter bullets from the past are just as deadly as they ever where, which is very. Like Mike Irwin once opined when someone asked if a .38 Special was still effective, 'No, nowadays the RNL .38 actually heals people who are shot with it', or something to that effect. You get the idea of what he was trying to convey, of course it is still deadly and effective.
We all want validation and to have our confidence in our chosen defense rounds capabilities bolstered. I wish there were some certain way, to garantee a certain outcome, but there isn't. The simple truth is that despite all the past shootings and all the ballistic testing, there is no precise indicator of exactly how the shooting incident you might be involved in will transpire, or conclude.
tl;dr There are no magic bullets. Bullets of old, or modern, design can work if properly placed.
Back in the 80s I used the Speer 200 grain HP, over 11 grains of Unique in my .45 Colt and the 125 grain Sierra JHP over 18 grains of 2400 with a magnum primer, in my .357. At the time I felt like these were good defense loads, that would perform well given the then current state of bullet technology.
I currently use the Speer 250 grain Gold Dot over 17.5 grains of 2400 in .45 Colt and the 180 grain Nosler Partition HG over 14 grains of H110. While there are other acceptable choices that are currently available, I personally feel that those are two of the best preforming projectiles currently available.
L to R, Speer 200 grain JHP, Speer 250 grain GD, 125 grain Sierra, 180 grain Nosler HG.
Now the point of my post is, that although I believe that I'm using the best projectiles currently available in those calibers; would I feel at a great disadvantage, or under gunned if I were still using the loads I did in the 80s. The answer is no I would not. They are still fully capable of doing what they were intended to do, which is severely wound, kill and/or incapacitate someone.
Also at that time I used the 200 grain SWC, 230 grain FMJ or the Remington 230 grain HP for SD loads in my .45 ACPs, although I now use the 230 grain XTP in my .45 ACPs, I feel the same way about all of those, I would still use them and feel confident.
Round nose lead, full metal jacket and lead semi wadcutter bullets from the past are just as deadly as they ever where, which is very. Like Mike Irwin once opined when someone asked if a .38 Special was still effective, 'No, nowadays the RNL .38 actually heals people who are shot with it', or something to that effect. You get the idea of what he was trying to convey, of course it is still deadly and effective.
We all want validation and to have our confidence in our chosen defense rounds capabilities bolstered. I wish there were some certain way, to garantee a certain outcome, but there isn't. The simple truth is that despite all the past shootings and all the ballistic testing, there is no precise indicator of exactly how the shooting incident you might be involved in will transpire, or conclude.
tl;dr There are no magic bullets. Bullets of old, or modern, design can work if properly placed.
Nate45:
I agree with your progress. I used to have my seville loaded with 260 grain Sierra HPS at 1450 fps. Didn't recoil THAT bad, and, I had confidence that if it would do in a black bear, it would likewise take care of the bad guys that have come after me. For what it's worth, everyone that's ever tried to fight, or attack me has been over 6'2" tall, and, at least 230.
Haven't been many, but, that seems to be the bottomline.
That said, I found the roar of the 45 better then the bark of the 357, and, up until my snubbie, have never needed a 357 for defense.
Right now it's loaded with Fioochi 148's at 1131 fps. That's all I can shoot combat accurate out of it. I've tried heavier bullets, and, they recoil too much for me.
I'd rather have heavier bullets, but, the 148's are all I can handle.
Given my backstop situation, I'd use the best penetrating bullet I can get for caliber, read heaviest.
I do NOT like 200-230 grain bullet in 45 much. Unless they are going, really fast. I used to shoot a lot of ball ammo, and out of my Seville, it should have been going around 1700 fps, or faster.
I agree with your progress. I used to have my seville loaded with 260 grain Sierra HPS at 1450 fps. Didn't recoil THAT bad, and, I had confidence that if it would do in a black bear, it would likewise take care of the bad guys that have come after me. For what it's worth, everyone that's ever tried to fight, or attack me has been over 6'2" tall, and, at least 230.
Haven't been many, but, that seems to be the bottomline.
That said, I found the roar of the 45 better then the bark of the 357, and, up until my snubbie, have never needed a 357 for defense.
Right now it's loaded with Fioochi 148's at 1131 fps. That's all I can shoot combat accurate out of it. I've tried heavier bullets, and, they recoil too much for me.
I'd rather have heavier bullets, but, the 148's are all I can handle.
Given my backstop situation, I'd use the best penetrating bullet I can get for caliber, read heaviest.
I do NOT like 200-230 grain bullet in 45 much. Unless they are going, really fast. I used to shoot a lot of ball ammo, and out of my Seville, it should have been going around 1700 fps, or faster.