Ok, who's buying the 50th anniversary flattop?

Hi Tul,
Excellently done evil chuckle, one of the best I've ever heard. :p
I should have been more precise.
Ruger says the single-action line has (or had) more variations in it than any of their other lines, and they did try for quite a while to accommodate a wide range of customer requests, but they're cutting back to what sells the most in the SA line.Yeah, you're right to point out the .480 & the .204 & so on, but the comparison was made to the days of the S&W Gun Of The Month period, and the company wants to concentrate IN THEIR CENTERFIRE SA LINEUP :D on the calibers that sell the most for them, and drop variations that weren't carrying their weight. With all of the different SA models, barrels, finishes, calibers, frame sizes, etc. they were offering, it was a large production, materiel, and inventory headache. People have been asking for a smaller Blackhawk for over 30 years and a smaller Vaquero for 10 years, Ruger listened, but didn't see the numbers justifying running the old Vaqs concurrently, so something had to give.
Everywhere I go on the various gun sites the .44 Special comes up, and yes, the questioner would buy one yesterday if Ruger made them, but Ruger apparently doesn't see the return numbers right now & has no plans right now to build any. Really, if you look at that caliber, there's a dedicated core following, but there hasn't been enough .44 Special buyers for any maker or importer to keep the caliber in regular production in any kind of volume for decades. Given that, the chances of them building a really low seller in a caliber that would be more curio than practico, like a .41 Special, is about zilch in a market that already has existing calibers & bullet options that cover essentially the same ground.
Again, there's always the possibility of a Davidson's run, and that's the best bet for anything outside the regular Ruger catalog.
Other than that, rent money can always be diverted to the custom shops, like Bowen, who are happy to build lots of fun guns to meet a customer's precise desires. It's a matter of priority- rent or a custom gun made to your own specs. America gives us the right to make those decisions, and I'm proud to live in a country that does. ;)
Nothing wrong with Ruger trying out a new caliber every now & then, but considering the R&D costs, along with gearing up for production, they usually try to do it in what they perceive as possibly a niche area, but at least one that has a fair chance of selling.
The .41 Special might be a fun one to play with, but if all it needs is somebody to make guns & ammo for it, that doesn't sound much like it's "already out there" to me, nor does it sound like there'd be a huge market for it.
Not knocking anybody who'd like to have one, just pointing out in general why Ruger's cutting back on the SAs.
Happy Day After.
Denis
 
OK, Dennis, I think we are back on the same page!

Everywhere I go on the various gun sites the .44 Special comes up, and yes, the questioner would buy one yesterday if Ruger made them, but Ruger apparently doesn't see the return numbers right now & has no plans right now to build any. Really, if you look at that caliber, there's a dedicated core following, but there hasn't been enough .44 Special buyers for any maker or importer to keep the caliber in regular production in any kind of volume for decades.

Two different things come to mind here. (And yes, I understand that Ruger and S&W doesn't think there are enough potential .44 Special buyers in general.)

1) I can understand why something like the S&W M24/624 doesn't go back into full production. It's easier to just make a .44 Magnum Mountain Gun and let people shoot Specials in that. But the smaller Blackhawk and Vaquero have differrent issues. It doesn't look like it is going to be possible to put .44 Magnum in them. Too small, not enough steel. (Maybe .41 Magnum would work but that leads to more discussion of "niche market!") It's like the Colt SAA, more of a ".41" size frame. But .44 Special gives you maybe 70% of the utility of a .44 Magnum. I would personally think the .44 Special would give you the most potential utility for these guns. Remember, the bullet is only .429". The .45 Colt is .454". These guns in .45 Colt are going to have to be treated more like Colts than Rugers. It would be crazy to try for .44 Magnum performance out of them in .45 Colt. But I can get everything I need for a woods gun and short range deer handgun in .44 Special.

2) I don't _have_ to have .44 Special. I just want something _besides_ .357 and .45 Colt! Heck, I would be more likely to buy a Vaquero in 38/40 or 44/40 than I would in those first two. Just a little too plain for me. Surely Ruger can pick one of those (or .44 Special) as a third chambering. Most of the Italians do it. 44/40 is fairly common there.

Other than that, rent money can always be diverted to the custom shops, like Bowen, who are happy to build lots of fun guns to meet a customer's precise desires. It's a matter of priority- rent or a custom gun made to your own specs.

And that's exactly where I got into trouble in the first place! Jeff had to go and publish a review of a original .357 (small frame) Blackhawk that had been custom converted to .44 Special.

http://gunblast.com/Clements.htm

I've been wanting one ever since. But I would have to find an original small frame .357. And it would have to be one I was willing to sacrifice to the custom gods. So let's say $400-$500 for the gun. The conversion is a _minimum_ of $800+. And it is easy to start picking "must have" options and go well beyond that. So you have the lengthy looking for the gun, then the lengthy wait for custom work PLUS you have a hefty bill. I still thought I was going to do it someday until Ruger surprised me with the 50th Anniversary Flattop. I guess (worst case) I could always pay to convert one of those but wouldn't it be wonderful if Ruger could just make it right at the factory? Just go look at that review I linked to above. Read the article and look at the pictures. Who _wouldn't_ want a gun like that?!? It's perfect in so many ways.

The .41 Special might be a fun one to play with, but if all it needs is somebody to make guns & ammo for it, that doesn't sound much like it's "already out there" to me

The .41 is a stepchild. Both .357 and .44 Magnum "grew out from" an original cartridge that people had been experimenting with. So the factories added 1/8" to the cases and upped the pressure limits. But the .41 Magnum was released as a virgin birth. There wasn't a .41 Special. But many people since then have thought there really should have been. In my personal opinion, things might well have gone better for the caliber if S&W had just released two cartridges that day instead of just one. Then they could have pushed the .41 Special for police and the Magnum for hunting.

So people have created the .41 Special. They just trim off 1/8" from the Magnum cases. They then pay custom gunsmiths to custom chamber Colt SAA's or Ruger GP100's, etc. in .41 Special. Guns that aren't really quite "enough" to handle .41 Magnum. It works great and would make a great cowboy load. Maybe the Cowboy shooters could add it to the approved list and then a Vaquero in .41 Special would have a "job!"

I keep hoping that Starline (or somebody) will start making .41 Special cases. There isn't anything wrong with the trimmed Magnum cases but it would be more pleasing to have properly headstamped brass! Less chance of mixing up loads since I do own "real" .41 Magnums.

I agree with everything you said about marketing. I know Ruger doesn't want to make dozens of different models. But I DO have some hope just because I've been very surprised by the explosion of products from Ruger in the last few months that I'm really interested in buying. I had no interest in another Blackhawk and then comes the Flattop. I have a Bisley Vaquero and thought I was done there but now the new one is tempting. The new MKIII Hunter in stainless with fluted barrel is very nice looking. The new 22/45 looks much better than the old model and I just might get one. The .454/.480 Alaskan surprised and delighted me since I love my 9.5" Super Redhawk. The Single Six Hunter with interchangeable cylinders for both varieties of .17 Rimfire sounds sweet. The new .45 Auto is MUCH better feeling in the hand than the old blocky ones. The new scout version of the MK77 bolt action would make a great woods deer rifle. And I'm probably missing some! A company that can do all that in a few months just MIGHT come out with something else that really makes me happy. Especially if they get enough letters and emails from all of us! I've already written one!

Gregg
 
If wishes was dollars I'd be rich.
Ruger just wants to go with what they know they can sell. That may not give you your .41 Special or my wife her .32-20s, but it's a business decision & theirs to make. One thing that I don't think many diehard .44 Specialers take into consideration is that it's really a handloader's caliber. Not well supported by the ammo companies, and handloaders don't make up the majority of new gun buyers.
Personally, I'm happy with what I can do in .357, .44 Mag & .45 Colt. Those calibers do everything I need in a heavy hitting handgun, and there are plenty of commercial loads in a very wide range of bullet styles and power levels available over the counter.
Nothing wrong with wishing, I'm just suggesting you don't put everything else on hold (including your breath ;) ) while you're waiting for Ruger to make your wishes come true.
Looking forward to trying out that Frontier boltgun. Got one in the works in .308, not sure I agree with a couple of the other chamberings in it, but others probably will.
Ruger will gamble in new areas occasionally, but only if they feel the numbers are there, and even then they're not always right. The market can be hard to predict. Their leverguns are an example of that. They certainly can build them in .44-40 or .44 Special, but look what happened when they did build the old Vaqs in .44-40. I have one of the last .44-40s Ruger had in stock when I needed one for a project a while back. They just weren't moving (I know there were some problems with early cylinders, but those were corrected, and the one I borrowed was so well made I bought it when I was done with the project), so Ruger dropped them.
They might be lucky to move 5,000 units in the Blackhawk in .44 Special over a period of a couple years, or longer, and once the fan club gets saturated, sales would drop off to where it wouldn't justify keeping them in production. Sales numbers might be even lower, unless they put some Thunder Ranch gold on the frame.
This is not the first time a manufacturer drops peripheral product lines to concentrate on a core product line, and I myself wish the bird's-heads would be around a little longer. I've got a neat little .32 Mag BH on loan, hadn't intended to keep it, but it's so cute & if they're not gonna be around.....
There's always somebody who gets caught short, and always somebody who has to be disappointed with their wish list.
Yes, it'd be great of Ruger did make a .44 Special Blackhawk, and I'm not saying it'll never happen, just that Ruger has no plans for one now.
You might be better off in getting several hundred .44 Specialers to write to Davidson's asking them to contract for a short run. Ruger will do those occasionally if they know they can sell all of them up front. A Davidson's run shifts the risk of being caught with a non-seller from Ruger to Davidson's.
Hang in there.
Bowen's waiting to hear from you. :D
Denis
 
Yeah, I'll Have One...

Pretty much seems like a really gotta have to need to can't very well live without one. And I'd happily pay a little extra if they could figure out a way to get that idiotic warning off the barrel.

We got in the first New Vaquero the other day, a 5-1/2" .45 Colt, blued/case hardened. Lasted about 4 hours in the display case. Maybe gonna probably have to really need one of those, too. I'm....

OutAtTheEdge
 
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