OK, here we go again...
- Thread starter Alnamvet
- Start date
Best for what?
What's wrong with an Auto Ordnance 1911? Don't get me started.
What's wrong with a Les Baer Concept III or a Wilson CQB or a Springfield Professional? Not a thing.
What's wrong with a Colt 1991A1 if bought to shoot the way it comes? It's way overpriced IMHO for a 1911 with a plastic trigger, plastic MSH, a redi-rust finish and lousy sights. By the time you fix all that, you could have bought a stainless Kimber or Springfield that already had those features.
What's wrong with a 1991A1 if bought to have the basic platform for a custom? Nothing.
What's with this determination to have a gun declared "The Best"?
Marko Kloos
Inactive
Even if you grant that the 1911 is "the best .45 ever designed", what is so intrinsically special about a Colt that it, and only it, is the best and only choice for a 1911? The medallion on the grips?
Now that we've established tribes and religions...seems we're already busy splitting into sub-tribes and subreligions. Human nature, I guess...no wonder we've been busy killing each other for millennia.
Now that we've established tribes and religions...seems we're already busy splitting into sub-tribes and subreligions. Human nature, I guess...no wonder we've been busy killing each other for millennia.
rugerfreak
New member
The new Colt 1991's around here are going for about the same money as a new Sig----Why dump more money into an outdated design to make it "right" when you can buy near perfection out of the box??
For the record, Colt has a nearly non-existent marketing department. Their website is even grossly out of date! Colt survives only because a handful of die-hard fans don't want to see an American institution go under.
I think it is universally agreed that the Colt line is badly overpriced. But we're also talking about a company desperate to make money. For years they were selling the M1991A1 for pennies above what it cost to make them, in the hope that they'd sell a bunch and thus pull out of it that way. Instead they got to hear gripes that they didn't look as nice as the old polished guns and had that $%@# firing pin safety.
So now Colt has gone the other way, finally polishing their guns again and even re-introducing the Series 70. And of course they come complete with a price sticker guaranteed to make even a Colt lover such as myself faint.
I dunno. Maybe they'll figure it out somehow, hopefully before it's too late.
I think it is universally agreed that the Colt line is badly overpriced. But we're also talking about a company desperate to make money. For years they were selling the M1991A1 for pennies above what it cost to make them, in the hope that they'd sell a bunch and thus pull out of it that way. Instead they got to hear gripes that they didn't look as nice as the old polished guns and had that $%@# firing pin safety.
So now Colt has gone the other way, finally polishing their guns again and even re-introducing the Series 70. And of course they come complete with a price sticker guaranteed to make even a Colt lover such as myself faint.
I dunno. Maybe they'll figure it out somehow, hopefully before it's too late.
Colt lovers will cry a river. Kimber can make a 1911 that is more accurate, reliable and cheaper than Colt because they're a new company?
Colt should take notes then.
I'm not a Colt hater, but I'm not about to pay twice what a gun is worth for a stupid prancing horse either.
Colt should take notes then.
I'm not a Colt hater, but I'm not about to pay twice what a gun is worth for a stupid prancing horse either.
I would say that there are two or three things wrong with the 1911 design.
1.) Swinging barrel link, is it really necessary? A Browning style cam mechanism with Hi Power disassembly would be better.
2.) Why a grip safety? A heavy firing pin spring and light firing pin seems to work fine. The beavertail is good, but I'm not in the U.S. Calvary, a grip safety is not something I require.
3.) Remove the barrel bushing. SIG and others make accurate guns without barrel bushings. By barrel bushing I mean a seperate piece of metal at the muzzle for better lockup. It just complicates (dis)assembly.
That said, I love my pair of 1911 hybrids.
1.) Swinging barrel link, is it really necessary? A Browning style cam mechanism with Hi Power disassembly would be better.
2.) Why a grip safety? A heavy firing pin spring and light firing pin seems to work fine. The beavertail is good, but I'm not in the U.S. Calvary, a grip safety is not something I require.
3.) Remove the barrel bushing. SIG and others make accurate guns without barrel bushings. By barrel bushing I mean a seperate piece of metal at the muzzle for better lockup. It just complicates (dis)assembly.
That said, I love my pair of 1911 hybrids.
The recipe for a successful 1911 in today's market is simple, if only somebdy would do it. Make a no-frills one, completely GI in appearance and in original JMB configuration. Don't waste money on fancy finishes, exotic grips, or match-grade barrels. Let the owner sink $20,000,000,000,000 if he so chooses into custom modifications. And above all, don't let them out the door unless they function correctly!
Springfield had a really good thing going in the early 90's with their plain-jane 1911-A1. Then they decided to make them in Brazil to save money, and everything went to pot. Kimber also had a good thing going, but then they got audacious and started cranking them out so fast they couldn't keep the QC in check. Colt of course simply sat on their butts, and didn't watch market trends or look to ways to improve manufacture w/o sacrificing QC. The absolute BEST 1911s on the market in the past ten years or so have been the Norincos, which although sorely lacking in cosmetics, worked 100% yet were cheap (tho' that was due in part to Chinese labor practices). Something American-made just the Norincos, but of course maybe $100 more to allow for American labor costs, would sell like wildfire. Maybe the Kahr Auto-Ordinance, if only they could keep those from falling apart while still inside the box!
Springfield had a really good thing going in the early 90's with their plain-jane 1911-A1. Then they decided to make them in Brazil to save money, and everything went to pot. Kimber also had a good thing going, but then they got audacious and started cranking them out so fast they couldn't keep the QC in check. Colt of course simply sat on their butts, and didn't watch market trends or look to ways to improve manufacture w/o sacrificing QC. The absolute BEST 1911s on the market in the past ten years or so have been the Norincos, which although sorely lacking in cosmetics, worked 100% yet were cheap (tho' that was due in part to Chinese labor practices). Something American-made just the Norincos, but of course maybe $100 more to allow for American labor costs, would sell like wildfire. Maybe the Kahr Auto-Ordinance, if only they could keep those from falling apart while still inside the box!
Hmmmmmmmmm...
...interesting some of the responses; I suspect some may have "issues" with Colt, as I have, but nevertheless, your so-called basic Colt today is really not over-priced; and if some think it is, as compared to what? A Auto Ord cum Kahr? I've seen enough of the misery Justin's dad has wreaked upon thousand's of American families. But never mind that...if one shops right, your basic Colt can be had for ~$450-$490...a couple of hundred dollars removing plastic, trigger job, change-out of internals with hardcore/bullet proof parts, and you have a gun right up their with the so-called big boys . As for me, the sights are still fine. "Redi-rust finish you say? Hell, additional ~$150 from a outstanding refinsher such as Checkmate , and you still have a sub-four figure gun.
Anyway, keep up the posting...I love to LMAO sometimes.
...interesting some of the responses; I suspect some may have "issues" with Colt, as I have, but nevertheless, your so-called basic Colt today is really not over-priced; and if some think it is, as compared to what? A Auto Ord cum Kahr? I've seen enough of the misery Justin's dad has wreaked upon thousand's of American families. But never mind that...if one shops right, your basic Colt can be had for ~$450-$490...a couple of hundred dollars removing plastic, trigger job, change-out of internals with hardcore/bullet proof parts, and you have a gun right up their with the so-called big boys . As for me, the sights are still fine. "Redi-rust finish you say? Hell, additional ~$150 from a outstanding refinsher such as Checkmate , and you still have a sub-four figure gun.
Anyway, keep up the posting...I love to LMAO sometimes.
Marko Kloos
Inactive
Alnamvet,
You still haven't answered my question:
What is so intrinsically special about the Colt that it, and only it, is the best and only choice for a 1911?
Don't say, "because it has the prancing pony on the grip". Give me a technical explanation why the Colt is vastly superior to any other 1911-pattern pistol, and therefore the only viable choice.
They're all just pieces of steel, not religions....
You still haven't answered my question:
What is so intrinsically special about the Colt that it, and only it, is the best and only choice for a 1911?
Don't say, "because it has the prancing pony on the grip". Give me a technical explanation why the Colt is vastly superior to any other 1911-pattern pistol, and therefore the only viable choice.
They're all just pieces of steel, not religions....
Colts have just one thing going for them- resale value. Look at the insane prices folks are asking for the old Series 70 and pre-70 guns. While I agree anybody can make a good 1911, the fact is we're all a conservative, tradition-bound lot. If somebody made SIG knockoff they probably wouldn't sell as well unless they were a really good price. After all, do you want to say "I own a SIG!", or "I own a Whazihoozit, they're just like a SIG!"? If you only look at guns as tools and nothing more, then I guess the off-brands are sometimes a better choice. But for me, there's a pride in ownership factor that isn't explained through mere reason. Why else would someone pay $1000 for a LNIB pre-70 Colt, when they can get a scratched-up used M1991A1 for less than $400?
CastleBravo
New member
The new Colt Government Models seem precisely as good or bad as anything by Kimber or Springfield Armory and cost around $550. I don't see any particular reason to bash it or call it the Second Coming of Saint Browning... 
I do like the horsey though.
I do like the horsey though.
Marko Kloos
Inactive
No, you said:
This statement reads like: "The Colt 19-whatever, given a few couple of hundred dollars worth of fixes, is the best .45 cal semi-auto ever made".
You did strike a nerve, but not in the way you intended. It's not controversial, or upsetting, just plain boring to keep reading about how one kind and make of gun alone is "the best ever made". I'm just asking you to back up your assertions with facts. I am completely neutral on the issue of which 1911 is "the best", so here's your chance to educate me on why the Colt is superior to all other 1911-pattern pistols. Maybe I'll learn something new...
This statement reads like: "The Colt 19-whatever, given a few couple of hundred dollars worth of fixes, is the best .45 cal semi-auto ever made".
You did strike a nerve, but not in the way you intended. It's not controversial, or upsetting, just plain boring to keep reading about how one kind and make of gun alone is "the best ever made". I'm just asking you to back up your assertions with facts. I am completely neutral on the issue of which 1911 is "the best", so here's your chance to educate me on why the Colt is superior to all other 1911-pattern pistols. Maybe I'll learn something new...
Mike Irwin
Staff
Colt offers "most bang for the buck? Probably."
No. I'd say that Colt bangs your buck the hardest out of all of the manufacturers.
No. I'd say that Colt bangs your buck the hardest out of all of the manufacturers.
I suppose the issue here is...
....what is the true value received for buying a Colt. Excluding the new offerings, the 1991 is a bargain, and yes, because it has a horsey, the value of that gun remains, and in many cases, surpasses the original cost. One only needs to look at, say used 1911's, about five years old, and one can easily see that the Colts demand high dollar...can't say the same for many other brands; and if you want to compare it to non-1911 style auto's such as a Glock or a Sig, they can be had dirt cheap used...but not a Colt. Here in the Hampton Roads area, there are 3 used, but look like new Auto Ord's, the most recent mods...$199 each. Two 226's, about 2 years old...$250 each...Colt Mark IV, decent shape, stainless, $500...get the picture.
Is the Colt the best? For me it is, but I am biased. Is it the cheapest (read less expensive) now...hell no!! But if I was foolish enough to buy that $1000 retro today, and sell it as new 5 years down the road...
....what is the true value received for buying a Colt. Excluding the new offerings, the 1991 is a bargain, and yes, because it has a horsey, the value of that gun remains, and in many cases, surpasses the original cost. One only needs to look at, say used 1911's, about five years old, and one can easily see that the Colts demand high dollar...can't say the same for many other brands; and if you want to compare it to non-1911 style auto's such as a Glock or a Sig, they can be had dirt cheap used...but not a Colt. Here in the Hampton Roads area, there are 3 used, but look like new Auto Ord's, the most recent mods...$199 each. Two 226's, about 2 years old...$250 each...Colt Mark IV, decent shape, stainless, $500...get the picture.
Is the Colt the best? For me it is, but I am biased. Is it the cheapest (read less expensive) now...hell no!! But if I was foolish enough to buy that $1000 retro today, and sell it as new 5 years down the road...