Oil field found in depths of the Gulf of Mexico

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big ruger:

http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/content/ImpactsMountainsWesternMountains.html
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/aug2005/2005-08-05-05.asp
http://nsidc.org/sotc/glacier_balance.html

not everyone is in denial nor oblivious. some of us actually pay attention, and think outside of the box. Yeah, the greenspace sissies know that we're not alone on this planet, and have something called "responsibility" to ensure other organisms don't disappear from the planet, because that would upset the ecobalance, eventually leading to our demise.

on the opposite side of the table, you have Big Oil denying that CO2 emissions contribute to the greenhouse effect, similar to the way tobacco companies denied in court that nicotine was addictive, to carry out agenda.
 
big ruger, while I'm not some rocket scientist who can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that things will warm up and flood, I do realize that a billion gas engines running every day of the universe must have some effect eventually. That, combined with many pictures of really old glaciers wearing away, seemingly faster than usual, affect my judgement that we're having a bad effect on the world. Someone else here said that the world is one big symbiosis...except we (as humans) aren't being a part of it. If anything, our behavior is not unlike a parasite. We seem to be living out of balance.
 
I said it.

it has nothing to do with being a greenpeace wacko, hippie, or liberal whiner, it's about sensibility and rationality.

real conservatives are (or at least should be) about conservation, or else they're hypocrites. conserve energy, conserve resources.
 
Glad you asked Big Ruger...

Epyon, how do you know oil is finite?
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Have you read on your geology and palentology? I sure hope so, it takes MILLIONS of years for oil to form out of the decayed bodies of plant and animal matter, and it takes a lot of heat and pressure in the right places for it to happen. I never said we're going to run out really really soon, but it WILL run out at some point. As you've seen Polymer's links global warming IS a problem for EVERYONE, if you live on Earth, global warming is your problem! He's right on the fact that if all the gas guzzling Republicans would realize they're WASTING resources, and OUTSOURCING jobs, and screwing over the economy big time the Republican party is really not being conservative now is it?(Globalization, now that's a HUGE problem for America and a lot of Republicans want it.)

Now I've yet to hear a valid argument from people as to why we shouldn't actively seek out alternate bio-fuels. Don't forget humans were given the gift of intellect for a reason, many complain bio-fuels aren't as efficient? Stop whining and engineer something to create better bio-fuels with higher performance ratings. Loss of jobs? Hey that's capitalism, it happens, and with one field of jobs closing, new ones will open up as the bio-fuel industry grows.

Would you think I'm a tree hugging hippy because I do have concerns about the environment? Fine make that quick judgement call, but understand I love to eat animals too; I'll take deer, elk, bison, and moose over beef any day of the week, however if you destroy their habitats who's responsible for our exotic dinners being gone? So from the perspective of a hunter, let me say that if you DON'T have concerns about the environment you SHOULD NOT hunt, they both go hand in hand, destroy our planet's quality and you can say good-bye to all the wildlife and pristine wilderness that was here long before us. Let's also not forget that owning gas guzzlers just adds to an already growing problem, all it does is satisfies the childish desire to just HAVE TO HAVE IT BECAUSE I WANT IT SO BAD, completely overlooks the fact that buying that gas guzzler is just following a bad trend and being part of the herd, if gasoline is going out of style at some point why bother trying to get more, kinda goes against the idea of being conservative doesn't it? REAL conservative politics, and conservative economy help the environment, NOT because someone's a Republican, which is probably closer to being a facist party than a TRUE conservative party.

Now let me take another approach at the environmental issue, if you're a religious person do you think that a diety that created this planet as a gift for mankind wants the place in a mess? I thought the idea of mastery over plants and animals consisted of protecting and conserving resources and maintaining the balance. Certainly, our artificial worlds we have created with modern civilization greatly keeps us out of touch with the actual world around us, of course we don't see our pollutants we dump far away from our cities, beacuse as long as those toxins aren't visible and they're gone for the here and now no one thinks that it'll come back in the long run to bite them in the rear. What goes around comes around.


Epyon
 
BonnieBlue, here's a link. Google will turn up more.
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Gee! What could I have been thinking? You can create "artificial" shortages. Dang! Just thinking of all the money I've been losing over the years.
 
That, combined with many pictures of really old glaciers wearing away, seemingly faster than usual, affect my judgement that we're having a bad effect on the world.
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Busterby - how do you know that those pictures aren't carefully selected from tens of thousands of glaciers around the world?

Do you know how many glaciers there are in the world, and how many have been mapped in detail, and what percentage of them are advancing, static, or retreating? I'm not even sure that the climatologists know that.

The world has been much warmer than now, with evidence of tropical plants imprinted in rocks in far northern climes, and the world has been much colder than now, proved by great scars on the landscape created by miles-thick sheets of ice grinding across them.

So what makes you think that it's primarily US causing these effects, instead of normal climatalogical and solar variations? Here's a view from a mere 20,000 years ago, when 30% of the earth's landmass was covered in ice:

ic_large.gif


From here in New Hampshire, all I can say is "Thank God for Global Warming!" We're lucky humanity didn't arise 20,000 years earlier, otherwise we'd probably have destroyed the planet trying to prevent the "beautiful, magestic" ice sheets from retreating into Canada.
 
If the rest of the world, particularly the developing world - china and India, act... were to follow even halfway the environmental guidelines followed by the rest of the world in regards to pollution and pollution from burning fossil fuels then there might be some point to slitting our throat economically.

The only solution to potential climate problems will be found through advancing technology, not through environmental micro-managing nanny-statism.

While there may very well be serious climate problems due to industrialization - though there could just as well be serious problems due to other natural cycles - solar - geothermic - I do not subscribe to the sky is falling fashion. This planet has been hit by massive asteroids and had other huge climate swings from as yet not understood causes.

Making unilateral policy decisions in a panic that will not materially effect pollution world wide is about as intelligent as the unilateral disarmament movement of the early 80s. Making new technology calls for a lot of money and investment that can only come from a powerful and vibrant economy that fosters innovation and opportunity. Putting huge government bureaucracies and piles of legal regulations in place that prohibit innovation and that create huge unilateral barriers to sustaining a vibrant economy is certain suicide. It would also dramatically diminish our ability to make necessary changes in the future by making our country an economic shell of its former self and put the balance of power for making any real changes in the future in the hands of the rulers of the growing economies such as china and India. Frankly, I find that idiotic.
 
Yeah, see Epyon you lost me when you went off on a little "republicans are evil" spree. I asked what you based your knowledge on, not your political bent. Polymer, Everything Mvpel said is true. Its also true that some glaciers have been melting. Of course what algore doesn't tell us is that they have been melting for about 6000 yrs, and that in the last twenty yrs they have been trending the other way. I also heard during the summer, I cant say who did the work, but some ice samples from the north polar region turned up samples of exotic plants. Now this begs the question, what caused the global warming which made them grow there, and how did man create the ice age that buried them in lots of ice? I ask it in that manner because after it was pointed out that some of the same people warning us about warming were the same ones who, when I was but a wee little Ruger, said that we were headed for another ice age. I think it was the year 2000 they said it would kill us all. Anyway when this was pointed out to them they said "well yeah, thats what global warming will do. it will cause another ice age". Now I know thats twisted logic, but thats what these guys came up with. As far as keeping the environment clean, yes we do have a resposibility to do so. I just don't think it helps our efforts to come up with "the sky is falling" scenarios. There is just too much that is unanswered by the proponents of global warming. That doesn't make me evil,just skeptical. Yes I do think the greenpeace sissys need to leave my old pickup alone. After all I'm not running around telling them they are trying to ruin the economy by driving their little beer cans around. I also think we will eventually move to something else as a fuel source. I just think that move will be driven by logic, and reason, and not hysteria. I mean when Henry Ford built his prototype the rest of the world didn't just shoot their horses and wait for their ford to magically appear in the driveway. Oh and whichever one of you said that we stopped burning coal, I'll pay for you to go to a mine and tell them they can stop digging now. Last time I heard they were still hiring so maybe they didn't get the memo.:D
 
Big Ruger...

Sorry to have gone off the political deep end. Just bothered that partyline politics don't entirely follow what they're truly supposed to stand for. (AKA: Republican = conservative, yet they are pro-globalization, outsourcing, illegal immigration, defecit spending etc. Democrats = liberal, yet want to stifle our right to free speech, and ban the right to bear arms. Do you see where I'm going with that?) As for having a large ineffecient vehicle, how many other people also have trucks and SUVs that drink up gas like there's no tomorrow? Quite a bit. If we're such a technogically advanced society, it makes no sense to overlook and delay the use of something progressive, then again corporations and lobbyists will always do their best to stifle innovation and true progress. Also, regardless of whether enviro-whackos are unsure of whether we face global warming or global cooling. There's is definately a problem with the environment, you can see global warming in model form by going to very large cities that have an extremely high number of vehicles. Wonder why LA has brown clouds? (That smog is trapped in a giant bowl.) Now let's be fair what about cities that aren't in a valley area? It has been my experience driving to Houston and Dallas, I've seen smog clouds because of such heavy use of vehicles and heavy industry, I wouldn't be surprised if those cities have higher amounts of health problems because of the bad air quality.

It has been my understanding that I've heard more about global warming than global cooling. Also global warming is not the only issue at hand, think of the amount of waste and toxins we spew not only into our air from factories and vehicles etc. but also the amount of pollution we throw into our oceans and soil. Of course many of us don't see the damage done because usually it's done away from our eyes, but when you have incidents of mercury in fish, disappearance of wildlife or wildlife clashing with civilization because of too much development and destruction of habitat, it does pose a problem. Wonder why the deer population is so bad in some states that they're like giant rats now? Because we have killed off the a good number of predators from their natural prey items. Animals that have significantly reduced population because of unregulated human activity does pose a problem. There are about 6.6 billion people on the planet and GROWING. If the human population continues to grow it will also further add to the environmental problem, especially in third world countries where disease and lack of birth control is through the roof. Central Florida is experiencing a rampant amount of growth, and a lot of the places I saw even 4 years ago are now disappearing! I'm noticing neighborhoods and businesses clear cutting the trees and stupidly building without thinking of what they're doing, and when hurricanes and heavy storms hit, they wonder why they're flooded. Hate to say it but people have dug their own hole.


Epyon

P.S: Hope that got the point across with as little politcal bashing as possible. I just don't see the point in following parties that really don't represent what America is supposed to stand for. Republicans and Democrats are evil!:D
 
It has been my understanding that I've heard more about global warming than global cooling. Also global warming is not the only issue at hand, think of the amount of waste and toxins we spew not only into our air from factories and vehicles etc. but also the amount of pollution we throw into our oceans and soil.
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Yes, the reason you've heard more about global warming than global cooling is because you're under 40 years old and weren't old enough to read Time Magazine on June 24, 1974, in particular the article "Another Ice Age," where yet again various scientists warning of impending doom were quoted in sonorous tones listing various compelling evidence.

The amount of waste put into the environment is directly linked to the wealth a society has at its disposal, wealth that is created by free-market exchange of goods and services. Forty years ago, the US was massively and horribly polluted, but we as a society have been able to afford to pay that it takes to clean it up and prevent new pollution. Our cars and trucks emit a fraction of a percent of the pollution that they did forty years ago. Coal plants have smokestack scrubbers that would have been inconcievable forty years ago.

But in Russia, still reeling from 80 years of communist domination, this is the scene overlooking the Nizhniy Tagil Metallurgical Combine:

smokestack.JPG


When we expressed our amazement to our hosts, they said, "yeah, isn't it amazing?? There's only one now!"

The best way to save the environment is to create market incentives for clean air and water. And you don't accomplish that by cutting the throat of the economy with destructive restrictions and punishments.
 
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