Ohio Leo abuse of CCW carrier.

[hogdogs]

It's not lying it's called sales puffery.

In the law enforcement world lying is called that too?

The difference between what this guy did and stealing from evidence room et al is that while unprofessional and perhaps criminal it was in the course of his duties and there is a procedure to fact find and he has the presumption of innocence while the investigation is going on.

So you are implying that what most see as a heinous felony is not important enough if it is an officer to deserve UNPAID ADMINISTRATIVE SUSPENSION/LEAVE? Let alone already have criminal charges applied, been booked before decision bail is determined as any citizen from any other sort of trade would see...

I love the fact that there are thousands of interactions between Cops and offenders a week and in the rare instance of bad acting on the part of the Cop you get the Cop bashers out of the woodwork.

First of all... the thousands of contacts before one such as this matters naught to me.
In those interactions it is either an officer dealing with a criminal properly or a decent officer dealing with an innocent person in a fair and polite way.

As for cop bashers, I am not one in any way shape nor form. I treat any and all honest, fair officers honorably and respectfully.

Brent

 

[shortwave]

I know this thread was not started to be turned into a "cop bashing" thread nor was it started to be turned into a thread insinuating its ok for a cop to lie and his/her partner to cover the lie.
Hope thread doesn't turn that way or it won't be open long and rightfully so.

Clumping all cops 'as bad' is about as assinine as saying there aren't any dirty cops... and IMO, an apology is due to the good cops from those that are guilty of implying/feel all cops are bad. They aren't.

I don't see any posts by hogdogs insinuating all cops are bad but rather wanting this cop judged the same as any citizen would be. Nothing wrong with that IMO and thats not cop bashing. Just cause you tote a badge doesn't give you the right to threaten to kill anybody and if anything you should be held at a higher standard.

Also, I don't see where any LEO posting on this or other sites I've visited, having posted anything trying to defend this idiots tactics or treatment of the driver. All LEO postings I've read and the LEO's I've talked to(which includes family) are PO'd cause the actions of this kind of moron makes their job that much harder.

I asked a couple of them about the "paid sick leave" status and none of them work for the City of Canton PD so they don't know the specifics of Canton PD's uniformed contract.

One LEO asked me if the officer in question(the idiot on the vid) went out on sick leave himself following the incident fearing the departmental consequences he knew he was going to face after the vid. went to the drivers attorney. I didn't know the answer to that.
He followed up by saying if that was the case, this officer will face the rath of the Dept. when he returned to duty.

He also stated that many depts. will not put their LEO's on paid sick/vacation leave in a situation where there is possible disciplinary actions pending. Thats usually paid Administrative Leave or desk duty(depending on severity of case) till IA finishs their investigation.

I've seen that happen before where a gov't employee is put on paid admin. leave until their investigation/hearing is complete and if the defendent was found guilty of the infraction they never have to pay back the money they were paid while on admin. leave. Witnessed a few cases where, due to hearing postponements, the defendent that was clearly guilty as charged,stayed out on paid admin. leave for better than a year. That I don't agree with. Our tax dollars at work.

 

[Webleymkv]

I've pretty much kept my opinions to myself thus far, but in the interest of preventing this thread from taking a turn for the worst (and thereby being locked) I think a few things need to be said. There is a difference, I think, between outright cop bashing and holding cops to a different standard than the rest of the population. Sweeping generalizations about police officers is, of course, stupid as are nearly all sweeping generalizations. Cops are people too and just like any other group of people you'll have good ones and bad ones. To judge the entire profession based solely on the actions of the lowest denominator is an exceedingly bad idea.

I do not, however, feel that it is wrong to hold police to a higher standard than the population at large. Police officers are entrusted by the rest of the populace with certain powers and privileges unique to their profession; it is, in my view, absurd to think that these expanded powers and privileges do not come with a greater degree of responsibility and more severe consequences for irresponsibility. Simply put, a police officer must, if his authority is to be respected, set an example for the rest of the community.

The infuriating aspect of this incident, for me at least, is not so much what the officer did, though his actions are certainly reprehensible, but rather than he used his position of authority to do what he did. The root of the problem, as I see it, is that all too often police are given a free pass simply because they are police.

Let's be honest for a moment, how many times have we all seen a cop turn on his lights and sirens just so he can get ahead of traffic or run a red light? How many cops do we all know who refuse to write another cop a ticket, but will happily write one for someone else? How often do we see a cop park in a no-parking zone for no other reason than that he doesn't want to walk as far? I know that not all cops partake or even condone these sorts of things, but enough do that it's not an uncommon occurrence. These types of things are allowed to occur almost completely unopposed, and then the good cops wonder why, when something like this particular incident occurs, they get lumped in with the bad cops.

In this particular case, many of us cannot help but wonder how many times this officer has pulled similar stunts, getting a bit bolder each time, until he finally crossed so far over the line that it couldn't be ignored any longer. In watching this video, the officer in question appeared over-the-top and unprofessional from the outset. I cannot help but wonder how many times he's verbally assaulted someone either too meek to speak out about it or someone who he was able to come up with a legitimate charge against (in which case there is still no call for such behavior IMHO) and thus discredit. People who like to throw their weight around, as this officer obviously does, don't generally start out as "in your face" as he was in this particular incident. Such people, instead, seem to push the limit just a bit more each time until something of this sort takes place.

As I said before, it is wrong to generalize cops based on the actions of the bad ones. However, it is also unreasonable for cops to expect not to be met with suspicion when many of their fellow officers are allowed to continue their bad behavior unchecked until it can no longer be swept under the rug. For the good cops out there, thank you for your integrity; we need more officers like yourself. However, if you want the cop bashing to stop, I suggest that you might want to start by ensuring that your own house is in order.

 

[hogdogs]

Webley, There is not one single thing in there that I do not agree with 100%.

With the 16 I.A. reports in his file I am betting dollars against doughnuts that he wasn't written up every time he exuded this sort of disrespect only because he felt the veil of protection granted by the authority and union.

Brent

 

[armoredman]

I am in the middle, professionally speaking, not being supportive of this individual at all, but being 10 years corrections, the red headed step children of LE, not a street cop, but still in the genre, so to speak. With that viewpoint, I found this person to be reprehensible, his actions criminal, and if he were an officer under my command, he would have been pulled from duty, placed under administrative investigation immediately and a request would have gone in for immediate suspension from duty as a danger to himself and others, as provided by policy. I have requested more than one investigation for bad behavior/potentially criminal actions in my 7 years as a supervisor.
The union did get it that officers who are investigated and placed on leave must be on paid leave, as they have not yet been convicted of any crime or depertment related malfeasance.
The end game to this scenario is clear, the former officer will be terminated, and the citizen illegally detained and searched will be offered a settlement. the officer will probably be held to be immune to personal prosecution, but the citizen may be able to press civil charges after he is terminated - unsure of Ohio law.
I also must state that I have never been treated with this type of disrespect by an Arizona LEO when a private citizen carrying legally.

 

[Wagonman]

Police are allowed to lie except in official reports and court. I believe SCOTUS. Codified that.

There is a difference between lying to benefit yourself personally i.e. "I wasn't there when the offender was struck" and lying for a Police purpose. "your buddy just told us you shot the dead guy, but if you tell us where The gun is and what happened we can help you" when he is in fact confessing to the murder

I am not implying any such thing. I am merely stating that the Officer deserves the same due process that any other citizen receives. While, what he has been alleged to have done may be a violation of regs of his department and perhaps a law or two... I can't say I wasn't there and frankly don't know the specifics of the case.

the fact that the thousands of positive interactions mean nothing to you just cements your animus and or prejudice against Cops.

It doesn't matter if there are thousands of uneventful interactions, you get on your high horse and scream about ONE guy who screwed up.

I read grousing about everything.....from PC to the temerity of a Cop parking in a no parking zone even though there isn't such a thing for emergency vehicles do you also believe that double parked delivery trucks should be cited also?...to pockets on pants

Seems like screaming before you are hurt to me.

 

[hogdogs]

the fact that the thousands of positive interactions mean nothing to you just cements your animus and or prejudice against Cops.

It doesn't matter if there are thousands of uneventful interactions, you get on your high horse and scream about ONE guy who screwed up.

Man, I am sorry I didn't express with my words how I feel about the good contacts... I am happy for all involved in these... But I expect that. That is what the job requires.

Police are allowed to lie except in official reports and court. I believe SCOTUS. Codified that.

But that doesn't make it right with me.

I think I am going to watch this continue "in real life" as I think the off with pay might be a CBA however I understand he started out on AL and it was changed to the sick leave.

Brent

 

[Wagonman]

Your expectation is met 99.99 percent of the time, in the rare instances of TRUE bad acting punishment is always meted out, heck in cases of "bad" acting punishment is meted out if the PTB make a political choice


Why would you care what a Cop says to the dregs of humanity?

 

[Al Norris]

Enough!

This thread hasn't been about bashing cops, despite the opinions of two people early on in this thread.

It is not cop bashing when one officer makes an utter ass of himself and tarnishes the reputations of the other 99%.

Given the nature of the interaction between the officer and the citizen, it is not cop bashing for people to expect the officer be given the same treatment a citizen would have been given had the situation been reversed (if such a thing is even possible).

Anyone who has been here for any length of time, knows I shut down such threads as soon as I see them. This thread is not one of them.

Therefore, before tempers get any higher, and I am forced to send some of you packing....

Closed.