Ohio CCW laws

T

Tayta_Mayne

New member
Okay so I have a friend that claims that in Ohio you have to unload your weapon into the threat in a self defense shooting. No matter how it happens or how many rounds your gun holds. This makes no sense to me at all. I have always been trained to shoot until the threat is over and stop. He says if I were to shoot someone twice center mass and stop them that I would go to jail for sure. In other words that I have to make sure and put all eleven goldots into the threat even if he's on the ground already because I'm not a doctor and he could still be a threat. I would just really like to here your thoughts on this. Especially anyone that lives in Ohio.
 
This makes no sense to me at all.
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You already know the answer to your question.:cool:

Your training is good...his sucks.:barf:

Where did your friend get his information? the internet? :eek:
 
Your friend is so wrong that it baffles me.

Not only is he wrong that you have to unload your weapon in to an assailant, but consider this...

A man comes at you with a knife. You shoot him twice center mass and he falls to the ground. He throws his knife away and yells, "Okay man, okay!"

If you shoot him again, and there are witnesses, you could be charged with murder. He was no longer a threat to you. And you killed him regardless.
___________________________________________________

You'll soon discover this good rule-of-thumb, but I'll share it with you anyway.

"In the firearms community, like nearly all others, those who deal in absolutes (i.e. always, never, best, worst, no matter what, etc...) generally possess opinions heavy with prejudice, short-sightedness, and misinformation."

If you ask a legitimate question about firearms or ballistics, among the tidal wave of answers and opinions you receive, there are two words that should immediately make your ears perk up: "It depends..." Because it almost always does. Nothing is absolute. There is no "best/worst/always/never". There is only more or less appropriate given a specific set of circumstances.

But you are right. Your friend is so wrong it hurts my brain.

~LT
 
I know, I know. He took his ccw classes at buckey outdoors. I made the same argument that you are crossing the line from defense to murder if someone is downed. I just had to post this because we got in a seriously heated convo over this. He swears that every time he asked them about it they said empty your gun or you will go to prison. It makes sense if your truly terrified that you may unload but it's all about self control and putting rounds on target. He said that his instructors said if you have time to take two well placed shots you waited to long and it was illegal because you would therefor have had time to back away... If the instructors are really telling people this stuff I am scared that someone will really do this. This is a close friend that doesn't lie and I don't want him to do this if he ever has to use deadly force. I tried to tell him to look up the laws on self defense, not sure if he did as he said that he already did the class and that he was gonna go on what they said. If anyone has any cases of over kill self defense stories please link them so I can try to get him on the right track.
 
Oh and I asked if he was positive they didn't mean empty your remaining rounds from your firearm after the attack. That prompted him to tell me that an instructor told him the best thing he could do would be to stand over the attacker when the authorities arrive and repeatedly pull the trigger like you are so terrified you don't know what your doing! This really scared me. This is not a man that says things like this so it has really thrown me. I'm honestly worried he will get himself into trouble. I am going to try to get him to go to a PRO meeting with me or something.
 
Tayta_Mayne

My wife was in a truckjacking situation a few years ago in Virginia, she fired 2 rounds of .38 glaser's from her 5 shot revolver, One round in the chest, one in the shoulder. The BG stumbled away, and she locked herself in the truck and dialed 911.

The Commonwealths attorney didn't even waste his time to bring her in front of a Grand Jury.

The BG is doing 25 to life.


She would tell you're friend (and the people who told him his info)......

Your an "Arse"
She is a proper "Brit" of course.

EDIT: to LordTio3 comment. it was a knife he brandished, and he did drop it, not a threat after the 2 gunshots, although we heard that from bystanders, I'm not sure she gave a feces at the time.
 
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He swears that every time he asked them about it they said empty your gun or you will go to prison.
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When I took my class, my instructor basically said off the record, "shoot until the guy is down and leave big nasty holes so the guy can't get up and the threat is ended." In other words, don't stop shooting until the guy isn't moving and you are safe.

I'd guess his instuctor was attempting to say the same thing but at some point your buddy got his wires crossed up.
 
That prompted him to tell me that an instructor told him the best thing he could do would be to stand over the attacker when the authorities arrive and repeatedly pull the trigger like you are so terrified you don't know what your doing! This really scared me. This is not a man that says things like this so it has really thrown me. I'm honestly worried he will get himself into trouble. I am going to try to get him to go to a PRO meeting with me or something.
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This sounds like the instructor was just speaking candidly and with a bit of sarcasm; essentially saying, "If the police came upon you and you were obviously distraught to the point of this catatonic reflex reaction, there would be little cause to charge you. The threat was obviously enough to break your consciousness from reality, it would almost certainly have been enough to warrant fear for your life."

It sounds like your friend was putting literal meaning on a bit of anecdotal humor. No self-respecting instructor would advise their students to shoot to kill, or to repetitively continue a feeble attack reaction until the authorities arrived. It almost certainly was a poor attempt at humor that your friend mistook for actual advice.

@egor20:

Many kudos sent your way on having a lady who is very capable and obviously strong-willed. The world would do well with a few more ladies, and men, like that.

__________________________________________
Story for reference:

(A man makes a call to 911)
911: 911 Emergency Response. What is the nature of your emergency?
Man: I've just caught a man breaking into my house. I shot him in my kitchen and I think he's dead. Can you send some police?
911: Okay, we've dispatched a unit and emergency medical to your address. Can you confirm that the intruder is deceased?
Man: Hang on...
...
(>BANG!<)
...
Okay, I'm sure he's dead. Now what?
911:...


^^^Joke^^^

PS: Make sure your friend doesn't read that part.

~LT
 
There was a recent case (I don't think it has gone to trial yet) involving a pharmacist in Oklahoma (?) who shot a robber in his pharmacy. In his case, he then pursued a second robber outdoors, came back in, switched guns and unloaded the second handgun into the first robber, who was lying on the floor.

He was arrested for murder.

This case is a bit more extreme than what your friend seems to be describing, but the principle remains the same. The pharmacist claims the wounded robber was still a threat so he was justified in shooting him after he was down. The medical examiner claims the robber was incapacitated by the first shot and could not have been a threat. There was a security video, but the robber fell in front of a camera when shot so it can't be seen whether or not he was moving.

The use of deadly force for self defense is allowed by law when we are in danger. Once the threat has been ended, we are no longer authorized to use deadly force. The mantra of responsible trainers is to "Shoot until the threat is ended," not "Shoot to kill."

It really sounds like your friend's instructor was trying to teach his students to shoot to kill while playing a game to make it look like they were just overly excited and shooting "to end the threat." That, IMHO, is reprehensible. But then he made it worse by telling them (if, in fact, he did) that "if you don't empty your weapon you'll go to prison."

Poppycock. If your friend is carrying a Glock 9mm that holds 18 rounds, we're supposed to believe that he was so scared he HAD to unload 18 rounds into the assailant -- who by that time was probably bleeding out on the sidewalk? I don't think so.

Your friend needs to sign up for a higher-level self defense class at a decent school.
 
If that hogwash came from someone who's a CCW instructor, he should be reported to whatever agency certifies CCW instructors in Ohio. An instructor spreading such horrible misinformation can get someone into a lot of trouble.
 
fiddletown said:
If that hogwash came from someone who's a CCW instructor, he should be reported to whatever agency certifies CCW instructors in Ohio. An instructor spreading such horrible misinformation can get someone into a lot of trouble.
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Agreed 110 percent.
 
Glenn, exactly where I told him to consider going before he ever walks out the door with a loaded firearm again. I also brought up the fact that a lot of people are carrying a hi cap pistol now and that 99.9% of the time 10+ rds is overkill and a grand jury would agree to that. I am going to try and get him to go to TDI with me soon. I know that this was a common sense thread. What scares me is that he firmly believes this horse crap that someone told him. If his instructor did indeed tell him this literally I am going to make a call to there office to report what is being taught. Thanks guys.
 
Tayta Mayne:

Your friend is of course, very wrong, as pointed out by the many respondents to your post. If he insists he is right, then he will most likely be "off the street" as well, due to the murder charge. That will be two birds with one stone (or maybe 17 or so stones?) -- so I guess the world will then be a safer place. (a sick jest for those of you with no ability to detect sarcasm -- I know you are out there!).

I agree that your friend needs retraining for an attitude correction and if it is confirmed that an instructor is spreading such tripe, he needs to be reported.
 
Do your friend a favor in the interim...

refer him to an attorney, a good law library, or here : http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/29 to do some research. He (and you, and anyone who carries) should know the law and have any vagueness cleared up by an experienced attorney.

I would equate a lack of this knowlege to going into harm's way without knowing the rules of engagement. Trouble is sure to follow.
 
one things for certain, if you draw your weapon your gonna have to use it. When you pull that firearm your guilty right at that moment! You have to prove you felt for your life. Several teachers say to unload your weapon, Is this something you have to do? No, but when you fire that pistol off do what it takes to put the person down for good. Because if you aim to wound it will be you on trial! And the prosecutors first question will be if you feared so much for your life, why didnt you aim to kill?
 
I really don't know where/how people come up with some of their absurd and wildly wrong notions about the laws associated with the use of force in self defense.

dakota223 said:
...one things for certain, if you draw your weapon your gonna have to use it....
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Nope, studies have shown that most defensive gun uses are successful without a shot being fired.

dakota223 said:
...When you pull that firearm your guilty right at that moment! You have to prove you felt for your life...
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Guilty of what?

Yes, by displaying your firearm in a threatening manner (let alone firing it), you have at least committed the act that is the material element of the crime of at least brandishing, and perhaps even assault with a deadly weapon. But as far as being guilty goes, that depends on whether you can establish your defense, i. e., that your display of lethal force was justified.

To do so, in most jurisdictions and under most circumstances you will need to be able to establish that a reasonable person in like circumstances, and knowing what you know, would have concluded that lethal force was necessary to prevent otherwise unavoidable, immediate death or grave bodily injury to an innocent. If your can establish that your display, threat or use of lethal force was justified, you are not guilty.

dakota223 said:
...when you fire that pistol off do what it takes to put the person down for good...
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No, you shoot to stop the threat. That is what matters. If your attacker breaks off the attack your legal justification for using lethal force ends, even if your attacker is still breathing. If your attacker stops and is still alive, if you finish him off, you have committed murder.

dakota223 said:
...if you aim to wound it will be you on trial!...
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You might wind up on trial in any event. But in any case, one does not shoot to wound. One shoots to stop.

dakota223 said:
...And the prosecutors first question will be if you feared so much for your life, why didnt you aim to kill?
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Do you have any evidence that has actually ever happened?

One does not shoot to wound. One does not shoot to kill. One shoots to stop.
 
do you have proof fiddletown????????????????????????????????????? I only know what our OHIO ccw generated literature says, where the post was originated there manual that the ohio attourney general puts out says. So for the state of ohio refer to this. Its available online! Your intentions have to reflect the force you use and a pistol is deadly force.
 
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