Offhand group sizes

SHE3PDOG

New member
I was just curious as to what the members here personally could shoot regularly at several different distances while target shooting (slow fire) with their handguns. If you want you can add rapid fire in there too.

I'm curious about 7, 15, and 25 yard shot groups. I'm wanting this thread to be motivational, not demeaning. Remember these are shot groups without rests or support of any sort.
 
I would get you fresh data but the wind chill was close to -60 today, not exactly sure but close enough.

It depends, when I was shooting PPC in the 1980's I could shoot 4" groups @ 25 yards with my duty gun (6" 686).
 
I guess I should have added mine to begin with. At 7 yards, I normally get 2-3 inch groups with pretty much all of my guns. My groups widen out to around 3-4 inches at 15 yards. Once I'm out to 25 yards, I can regularly keep all shots within 6 inches, but I normally start to notice my faults quite a bit more at that distance.

When I do my rapid fire drills, I can keep most of my shots on an 8 inch target at all the mentioned distances, but I drop off shots or jerk the trigger a lot more. I definitely benefit from doing a little bit of dry fire before going to the range; it keeps what I'm supposed to be doing fresh in my head while I'm actually shooting.
 
Two hand hold I can do five shots in 1-1.5" at 25yds. I can do that on a consistent basis. On occasion, I have done it at 50yds, but 50 is usually around 3".

Comment: I'm not doing this now. This was from mid 80s through 2005 when I was shooting around 35,000 rounds a year. I quit competition that year and now only shoot around 3500-5000 rounds a year and that includes some rifle. This can't be done without a tremendous amount of time, effort, and ammo put into doing it. However, it's possible.
 
Last edited:
When I go to the range, I always try to shoot some 5 shot groups at 25 yards for record. I keep track of the groups in a spreadsheet that has a separate page for each handgun. I try to always come home from a range trip with at least one group for record, usually I end up with 2-4 groups.

The recorded data includes group size, distance, ammunition used and the date of the range trip. If they are shot from a rest (I've only done that once with one of my handguns--one other time helping a guy zero his handgun scope) that is also noted.

Last time I was at the range I shot four groups for record near the end of the shooting session using an STI GP6 with American Eagle ammunition. The average size for the 4 groups was 3.5 inches. Largest was 4.4" c-t-c, the smallest 2.6" c-t-c. That gun shoots pretty well for me and it likes American Eagle ammo--which I am flat out of now. That was my last box.

Early last year, I had a Glock 20 at the range, and for some reason I shot some five shot groups at about 15 yards (somewhere between 45 & 50 feet--the range isn't clearly marked at that distance) although I usually shoot my record groups at 25 yards. I recorded 3 groups for that range trip, one with Blazer Aluminum was 1.3" c-t-c, two groups shot with PPU (prvi partisan) measured 1" and 1.4".

I saved the little one from that trip, in addition to writing down the numbers. :D
attachment.php


The above groups were all shot without any time constraint whatsoever and using a two-hand hold. When I shoot for speed, I don't usually measure my groups; I usually just shoot to keep all my rounds inside a given area. e.g. The 10 ring on a D-1 target.
 

Attachments

  • Glock20&PPU_JHP_small.jpg
    Glock20&PPU_JHP_small.jpg
    212.3 KB · Views: 1,648
I keep track of the groups in a spreadsheet that has a separate page for each handgun.

That seems like a great idea. I definitely need to start doing that. One of the reasons I started this thread is because I feel like I've pretty much plateaued in the last year with getting better even though I've been shooting way more than any other time in my life.
 
25 yards i can hold a 4" group, my 50 yard groups are inconsistant due to problems on my end. Theres an older gentleman at a place I go shooting that shoots 100 yards with a GP100 6 inch, and bangs a 6 inch gong with every pull of the trigger. I like learning from this guy.
 
I just tested a new 1911. At 25 feet (8+ yards) I shot a series of 1-1/2" groups using a two-handed hold, no rest.

At 25 yards the limiting factor is my eyesight combined with the lighting at the indoor range. The best I can usually produce now is on the order of 4 inches.
 
Define "offhand..

Do you mean standing up on two legs and shooting with one hand unsupported, a la Bullseye shooting?

Or are you talking about standing using a Weaver or some equivalent stance?

I started out in bullseye competition and was fairly good at that, then got more into field shooting. Now, age has sort of taken its toll and I shoot with as much support as I can find.

This was shot on an indoor range, standing, using a two hand hold and my peculiar stance.



Bob Wright
 
Among average folks I would be considered a good shot, to the real gun guys I would call myself fair to midland, not great, but not too awful bad either. The following groups while good still leave room for improvement

148 home brewed wadcutters
IMG_6624.jpg


This was done with my custom combat magnum buy myself and shooting buddy, same gun differnt shooters with different loads, one guy shot 38 SWCs, the other full boat magnums

IMG_6625.jpg



25.jpg


The following were shot with my K38 Masterpiece

IMG_4285.jpg


IMG_4287.jpg


Every now and then the stars align and I do things just right.
even a blind squirrel can find a nut.

m14_tgt-1.jpg
 
By offhand, I simply mean a weaver or similar stance with a two hand grip, but I am very curious about the bullseye shooting. Maybe I'll take that up sometime in the future. Nice groups, and nice guns by the way. It's definitely something to work toward.
 
Yesterday, as a matter of fact....

With a very well made - Wilson Combat 9mm 1911...( 2 hands, offhand, just focusing on grip and trigger break and reset...no time limit )...and sometimes I would rest for 5 sec or so between shots....( and I measured with a ruler - max width and max height) of the group....no ignoring a "flyer" - every shot counts in the measurement...

at 7 yds ...I shot a 1" X 1 1/4" rectangle with 50 rds....

when I went to 10 yds... it grew to 2" x 2 1/2"...with 50 more rounds..

when I went to 12 yds...it grew slightly to 2 1/4" X 2 1/2" ...with 50 more rds.

when I went to 15 yds... it grew to 2 1/2" X 3 1/4" ...with 50 more rounds.
------------
At 200 yds, I called it a day..../ and at 63 yrs old, not very good eyesight, that's as good as I can shoot.../ and to do that well, takes all the concentration I can muster.
-----------
I'm a little better than that...with my Freedom Arms single action in .357 mag....and I'm a little worse than that, with my 1911's in .45 acp ...and a little worse than that with a Sig 226 in 9mm...
------------
My tactical drills, I don't evaluate my groups --- I use a 8 1/2" X 11" rectangle in the center of my silhouette target -- and whether I hit upper left, lower right - or dead center ---- it counts the same because its "tactically accurate" in my view. If my groups get too tight - in those drills / then I need to speed up / if they get too ragged, then I need to slow down ....for whatever distance I choose to shoot at ...from 9 Feet...to about 24 Feet ...maybe out to 30 Feet ,,,/ beyond that, I think, I should be backing away from the situation vs firing....
 
Last edited:
Hey, I'd be happy with that one shot group. :D

I started taking notes and keeping group sizes in a little note book yesterday along with whatever I thought I did wrong for the fliers and whatnot in the group. I literally shrunk my group from 6 to 4 inches at 25 yards in about an hour and a half worth of time. I'm hoping I can continue this trend.
 
Shot IHMSA with 7TCU and 44mag in standing position, two hand hold. Chicken at 25 yds, pig 50yds, turkey 75yds and rams at 100 yards. Hit's only count if the steel falls so power is the name of the game.

With the right gun and enough pratice you can take down most of these targets in a 40 round match. Turkey is the hardest because the lower body is the only high precentage hold and it's not very large once you take out the neck area as a target. The turkey is the only reason I never shot a perfect round standing.
 
A very good friend of mine, who passed away a couple of years ago, won the IHMSA INTERNATIONALS twice in standing. The second time he won he won both centerfire and rimfire. I've never seen anyone who could shoot better off-hand standing than he could. EVER. He never shot over 34x40 standing when shooting silhouette at a match under competitive conditions. That's about as realistically good as anyone's going to get.
 
Back
Top