Off-hand pistol shooting.
- Thread starter dahermit
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jetinteriorguy
New member
In dueling a smaller target would be better given the relative inaccuracy of the guns at that time, plus I doubt the weapons used had the kind of penetration to take out both lungs and the heart. My theory this couples with one handed shooting gave contestants a good chance to walk away unscathed while satisfying the code of honor. Of course this is just speculation on my part, obviously not everyone walked away unharmed.
From Wikipedia: " The bullets loaded in them could weigh 214 grains (0.49 ounces; 13.9 grams) in .52 caliber or more in larger calibers. Bullets were fired with a muzzle velocity of approximately 830 ft/s (253 m/s), which made a .52 caliber bullet about as lethal as a current .45 ACP round"
603Country
New member
I agree with the logic that the one hand shooting style lessens your chest as a target. If that stand causes your ‘opponent’ to drill you both lungs and the heart, he’s likely good enough to drill you no matter how you stand. In short, you slapped the wrong guy when you challenged him to a duel.
At the time the profile stance was developed, getting shot at all, regardless of the immediate severity of the injury, gave you a pretty good chance of dying due to infection.
My guess is that they prioritized not getting shot at all much more highly than we would today whereas we, with antibiotics and rapid, high-quality medical care available are more concerned about not getting a really serious injury and not nearly as concerned about just getting shot.
Probably a better way to say it is that I imagine someone of that era would laugh if someone argued that a profile chest shot was more dangerous than a straight-on chest shot, and reply that you're dead either way once the gangrene sets in and that the profile chest shot is just going to kill you more quickly and with a lot less pain and suffering.
My guess is that they prioritized not getting shot at all much more highly than we would today whereas we, with antibiotics and rapid, high-quality medical care available are more concerned about not getting a really serious injury and not nearly as concerned about just getting shot.
Probably a better way to say it is that I imagine someone of that era would laugh if someone argued that a profile chest shot was more dangerous than a straight-on chest shot, and reply that you're dead either way once the gangrene sets in and that the profile chest shot is just going to kill you more quickly and with a lot less pain and suffering.
As I understand pistols used for duels...no sights. And the standard distance...twenty paces, made actually hitting ones target a matter of chance.
In all, relative to the benefit of leaning to shoot classic, strong side forward, one hand unsupported is a romantic notion (in my opinion). Consider: You have 100 rounds (I would be surprised if the army in my day would even allocate that many rounds), to learn to shoot a handgun. Would it be of more benefit to shoot 50 of those rounds in the classic off-hand stance and then use the remaining 50 rounds using a current combat stance or would a person be better prepared for combat if they shot all 100 rounds using a proper two-handed combat technique? Note: well coached in both instances.
Do any of the modern combat shooting schools teach off-hand pistol shooting as part of their combat shooting program?
Do any of the modern combat shooting schools teach off-hand pistol shooting as part of their combat shooting program?
stinkeypete
New member
Combat schools make money selling classes. Their graduates, for the most part, will never see combat. Isn’t that the romantic notion?
If the goal is proficiency within 100 rounds, that’s 4 rounds of skeet (ow) or a light day at the pistol range.
As a practical matter I have enjoyed shooting competition at the club level and done well with one hand. I have taken big bucks and lots of tasty does one handed. Rabbits, squirrels... it works for me. I can’t tell you how many pinecones and found bits of litter have toppled at my prowess!
Let’s face it, when you really need to shoot something you get a rifle or shotgun. Better yet is to bring a bunch of friends. We call that “deer season” around here!
Everyone can shoot how they like, but two hands is prohibited from many competitions, as are prone or supine positions. Those silhouette guys are crazy accurate and they do it laying down! It’s however you want and if Darth Vader and Gandalf got in a fight... who would win?
If the goal is proficiency within 100 rounds, that’s 4 rounds of skeet (ow) or a light day at the pistol range.
As a practical matter I have enjoyed shooting competition at the club level and done well with one hand. I have taken big bucks and lots of tasty does one handed. Rabbits, squirrels... it works for me. I can’t tell you how many pinecones and found bits of litter have toppled at my prowess!
Let’s face it, when you really need to shoot something you get a rifle or shotgun. Better yet is to bring a bunch of friends. We call that “deer season” around here!
Everyone can shoot how they like, but two hands is prohibited from many competitions, as are prone or supine positions. Those silhouette guys are crazy accurate and they do it laying down! It’s however you want and if Darth Vader and Gandalf got in a fight... who would win?
Off-hand pistol shooting is about Olympic style bullseye shooting. As in standing on your hind legs shooting a handgun with one hand.
Any troopie who is forced to defend himself with a hand gun has committed a very serious tactical error.
Turning sideways in a duel is about giving your opponent less of a target not opening your innards.
"...relative inaccuracy of the guns at that time... " Nonsense. The weapons used were made for accuracy. Very close to being full on target pistols and extremely well made. They had no problem penetrating at the customary 20 paces(35 to 45 feet). The calibres vary from 44 to 65.
Any troopie who is forced to defend himself with a hand gun has committed a very serious tactical error.
Turning sideways in a duel is about giving your opponent less of a target not opening your innards.
"...relative inaccuracy of the guns at that time... " Nonsense. The weapons used were made for accuracy. Very close to being full on target pistols and extremely well made. They had no problem penetrating at the customary 20 paces(35 to 45 feet). The calibres vary from 44 to 65.
The advice I listened to,and respect,came from a combat Veteran and long serving LEO.
He has taught plenty of classes.
But I'm not concerned about whether he has a Ninja school or a you tube channel.
He recommends a serious amount of your practice ammo be spent shooting one handed WEAK HAND
A chain is as strong as its weakest link.
It might be most gratifying to practice what you do well.
But you will gain the most strength practicing where you are weak.
Some folks never get off the bench rest rifle shooting. Others practice sitting and offhand.
I'm not knocking whatever shooting practice you get. Have fun!!
But if you shoot fallng plates,don't just shoot what you do best. What you do best is just a game.
Your falling plates should include one handed right hand,and one handed left hand.
Real world, your strong hand humerus may have been smashed by a .357 and you need to shoot back after getting hit,or die.
Or you might be running from trouble with a 5 year old in your arms .
I recall watching a you tube of a military sniper training film.
The point being emphasized was "Position is a luxury"
Real world,you get one chance,no sympathy with whatever card Murphy's law deals you.
No doubt,two handed isoceles is effective and generally preferred. Get there. Keep it sharp.
But don't take for granted that you will always be able to use it.
Nothing says the precision of a one handed bullseye shooter cannot be applied through a two handed shot . If I'm the hostage I think I'd rather have a seasoned bullseye shooter busting the bad guy's medula. Two handed,supported if possible.
Two handed is a good,useful skill and style. Superior,even...most of the time.
Two handed to the exclusion of one handed is weak. I don't get the emotion.
I'm curious,Dahermit,with standard 25 yd NRA bullseye target,one handed,
How do you score 10 shots slow,ten shots timed,ten shots rapid?
Can you average 8 points a shot for a 240? Thats,IMO,just reasonable competency.
If you can't,you need more practice.
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See post #13
As to military training pistol shooting, that's exactly what it is, and all it is. Training how to shoot the pistol. Its not, and never was about teaching good combat techniques (the pistol is not a combat weapon to the brass) or mastery of anything. Its BASIC stuff. And, f0r that the one hand stance does work.
The amazing one hand cattail hunt! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMfMKuElwtY&feature=youtu.be
mute the sound if there's a voice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMfMKuElwtY&feature=youtu.be
mute the sound if there's a voice.
I have read the mark of a good dueling pistol was that it pointed naturally and let you get on target quickly. And how many people back then really had good eyesight ? How many treatises on marksmanship from that era exist ? Look at the sights on a Colt Walker/Dragoon/1851 Navy/1861 Army-how do you adjust them ? In the Civil War Union officers carried their revolvers on their right hip, butt forward, drew and fired with their left hand. How many practiced weak hand shooting ? Or shooting at all ?
The butt-forward, right side position of the holster enabled a right-handed person to draw with either hand. Whereas if the butt were to the rear, a right-handed person would find it more awkward to draw the pistol. The reins were held in the left hand to control the horse...everything else on horseback was done with the right hand. A mounted trooper could either turn his right hand around to draw his gun, or draw his saber by reaching across his body to the sabler which was carried on the the left side of the horse. Calvary at some period carried carbines attached to carbine slings which also were draped across the trooper's chest and hung on the left. In short, the trooper did not normally draw the pistol with his left hand, but could if the situation warranted. Note: There are several sources on the internet wherein it is erroneously stated that the cavalryman drew and fired his pistol with his left hand. Also, some sources state that a cavalryman would wield his gun in his left hand, saber in his right. But those are myths perpetuated by non-horsemen. In short, the left hand is always on the reins to control the horse, the right hand is used for everything else, including the pistol.
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stinkeypete
New member
I went to the range yesterday and scored 58 for 10 shots, one was on paper for no points, the other was off the paper! My only excuse is these were the first 10 shots, no warm up, iron sights, 5 solidly in the black and 5 woefully not!
This was with a Single Six in .32, Iron sights. I’ve been shooting shotgun for the last year, I am motivated to get back in shape!
Two hands would not have helped.
I am thinking we need a thrown down postal match between the two-handers and the offhanders!
What do you guys think? We need to decide if .22 is allowed as that’s my bullseye gun!
This was with a Single Six in .32, Iron sights. I’ve been shooting shotgun for the last year, I am motivated to get back in shape!
Two hands would not have helped.
I am thinking we need a thrown down postal match between the two-handers and the offhanders!
What do you guys think? We need to decide if .22 is allowed as that’s my bullseye gun!
I give you great credit for being honest.
Thats a great starting point for getting better.
A lot of regular,mortal human beings shoot at NRA standard pistol targets.
If you develop your fundamentals, keeping most of your shots in the black most of the time one handed is a reasonable,attainable goal for Joe or Josephine pistol shooter.
I used to shoot with/against a Gentleman in his 70's . His hands shook as some old folks do. Hid glasses were Coke bottle thick. He walked with a cane.
I scored some of his targets. 30 shots,slow,timed,rapid...he was usually in the high 290's,with lots of 10 X's
It was an honor,IMO, to shoot with this Gentleman. He was humble,too.
I recall he complemented the fixed rear sight I made for my old Hi-Standard GD.
IIRC,he(may have) shot for the Army at Camp Perry. His name was Kirkpatrick.
Thats a great starting point for getting better.
A lot of regular,mortal human beings shoot at NRA standard pistol targets.
If you develop your fundamentals, keeping most of your shots in the black most of the time one handed is a reasonable,attainable goal for Joe or Josephine pistol shooter.
I used to shoot with/against a Gentleman in his 70's . His hands shook as some old folks do. Hid glasses were Coke bottle thick. He walked with a cane.
I scored some of his targets. 30 shots,slow,timed,rapid...he was usually in the high 290's,with lots of 10 X's
It was an honor,IMO, to shoot with this Gentleman. He was humble,too.
I recall he complemented the fixed rear sight I made for my old Hi-Standard GD.
IIRC,he(may have) shot for the Army at Camp Perry. His name was Kirkpatrick.