Off-hand pistol shooting.

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dahermit

New member
I find it incredulous that during my misspent youth that the handgun shooting stances other than off-hand were just beginning to evolve. Given that almost all handgun shooting has to do with either defence or hunting purposes I could never figure out why the classic off-hand stance was used to teach pistol craft long after it should have been deemed obsolete. In no scenario I can conger, does standing upright, strong side forward, pistol held in one hand that it would be legitimate practice for either defense or hunting. How was it that the Military would have their soldiers practice shooting off-hand whereas no soldier would be expected to stand calmly in the open, exposed to enemy fire and discharge his weapon in such a seemingly inefficient and casual manner?

Likewise, no one in their right mind would adapt the off-hand stance to shoot at game.

Have I missed something here? Why did the off-hand stance persist for so long when it should have been obvious that it was not at all efficient for any practical purpose?
 
whereas no soldier would be expected to stand calmly in the open, exposed to enemy fire and discharge his weapon in such a seemingly inefficient and casual manner?
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maybe because back when everything was single shot front stuffing flintlock they were required to??

and its also the proper form to use in a duel...

I've put a lot of rounds down range offhand, ringing the 200yd rifle gong reliably, with my left hand in my back pocket...of course, in those days I could balance a dime on the front sight at arms length, too...

And I'm apparently not in my right mind either as I've potted bunnies and squirrels and such with that stance as well. Have also taken deer "single handed" though I will not advocate that for others.

It's intended for target shooting, and LOTS of guys who can cut the bullseye out of a target can hit other things that way, too.
 
I did not learn to shoot a handgun until I practiced Bullseye, I recall that Charlie Askins, Bill Jordan among others were champion Bullseye shooters and I read an article in a gun magazine years ago by a top police instructor who said he insisted his students learn to group and too many thought they could become "Ed McGivern experts." And Ed McGivern emphasized that in fast shooting all the principles of sight alignment, trigger control, etc. applied.
 
I find it incredulous that during my misspent youth that the handgun shooting stances other than off-hand were just beginning to evolve. Given that almost all handgun shooting has to do with either defence or hunting purposes I could never figure out why the classic off-hand stance was used to teach pistol craft long after it should have been deemed obsolete. In no scenario I can conger, does standing upright, strong side forward, pistol held in one hand that it would be legitimate practice for either defense or hunting. How was it that the Military would have their soldiers practice shooting off-hand whereas no soldier would be expected to stand calmly in the open, exposed to enemy fire and discharge his weapon in such a seemingly inefficient and casual manner?
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This is a good question to raise.

First a view of older hand gunning and training:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpBcUzcECSU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaiGSDiaI_w

Fast forward some on this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDP8BRSEjrA

The one handed duelist stance has been used since the introduction of hand guns in competition and of course formal duels.

Handguns were introduced as novelty items for the royalty (sporting purposes) and as sidearms for officers and the cavalry. These were single shot items. Their use was extended to include the artillery units. I'm speaking here about the many years before there was a US of A. For most folks, if you wanted to hit anything and hunt you had a rifle. The popularity and increase in production of pistols began really during and after the civil war.

On horseback a pistol was shot one handed.

It was in the late 1800's that handgun and rifle clubs began to appear in Europe and the U.S. Mostly for formal target shooting and to promote hunting and sport shooting.

You can see in the Army vid that a two handed hold is taught in combat training side by side with one handed shooting.

It was really only after WWII that combat shooting for civilians developed. Jeff Cooper pioneered that along with schools for training for self defense, etc. With it the two handed hold became necessary when Jack Weaver showed up and proved that a two handed hold was just as fast and more accurate.

There has been an evolution to hand gun shooting. It hasn't always been a straight line.

tipoc
 
44 AMP said:
maybe because back when everything was single shot front stuffing flintlock they were required to??

and its also the proper form to use in a duel...

I've put a lot of rounds down range offhand, ringing the 200yd rifle gong reliably, with my left hand in my back pocket...of course, in those days I could balance a dime on the front sight at arms length, too...

And I'm apparently not in my right mind either as I've potted bunnies and squirrels and such with that stance as well. Have also taken deer "single handed" though I will not advocate that for others.

It's intended for target shooting, and LOTS of guys who can cut the bullseye out of a target can hit other things that way, too.
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When I envision images of off-hand pistol shooting, what I have in mind are pictures of WWII soldiers and 1960's pistol shooting. So I question your conclusion that off-hand was something still done from the effect of flintlock and dueling pistols. By the time WWII rolled around, they should have known better.

On horseback a pistol was shot one handed.
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Given the fact that the last U.S. horse cavalry was disbanded in 1942, shooting from horseback does not seem relevant to offhand pistol shooting practices continuing to be practiced into the sixties. Also consider that it is extremely difficult to maintain the sideways, off-hand standing stance when mounted on a galloping horse. It is also notable that mounted trooper's main firearm was his carbine, not a pistol. Even then, it was common practice to dismount and shoot from available cover (with carbines as Reno did in the woods when first encountering the Indians at Little Big Horn).
 
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So I question your conclusion that off-hand was something still done from the effect of flintlock and dueling pistols. By the time WWII rolled around, they should have known better.
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You might think so, but the military is full of things and terms simply because they have been doing/using them for ages, sometimes centuries.

The most common I think is they still refer to certain ammunition as "ball" rounds.

Also consider that for centuries the military focus was on what worked well enough, and not necessarily what worked best.

I did get a chuckle from the mental image of someone twisting sideways to "present the proper form" shooting from a horse.

Also it occurred to me that one hand pistol shooting might be something done while driving a motor vehicle, and I rather doubt the driver will be concerned with "proper" form there, either.

When it comes to what the military did and does, simple inertia often keeps lots of things going when "common sense" tells us something else would be better.
 
By turning sideways, you minimize your profile... making yourself a smaller target in a duel.

When I was younger I was much skinnier from front to back than side to side. Nowadays it's about the same no matter how I stand!

As I practiced for many years one handed, I hunt one handed. I think for big bore, it absorbs recoil better and I am certainly more accurate with the stance I practiced. I stopped counting around 19 or 20 deer... it works for me.
 
I guess I'm the oddball. I very rarely use both hands. A target has got to be over 30 yards out for me to use both hands. I'm not a paper puncher tho.
 
By turning sideways, you minimize your profile... making yourself a smaller target in a duel.
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That was, and is still the conventional wisdom, smaller (thinner) target, more difficult to hit. Assuming, of course you do have a sideways, as noted, some of us no longer do...:rolleyes:

The big downside is, that IF you do get hit, the bullet can tear up BOTH lungs and your heart, making a hit MUCH less survivable.

An interesting tidbit, a few years back the owner of a pair of actual Jeffersonian era dueling pistols allowed them to be fired and tested. Fired a few times, BOTH guns consistently shot two feet to the left of point of aim, at the traditional 20 paces distance.

Both of them.

Think about that for a moment...:D
 
Dueling...
Reminds me of an old cartoon I saw of a old-time English duel (pistols at dawn, doncha know) where they take ten paces, turn and fire.

One of the combatants has turned after just a couple steps and gunned his opponent in the back.

One of the seconds, standing on the sideline, turns to the other and says, "I think that explains why Lord Smythe laughed when Jones said, 'We'll settle this on the field of honor.'"
 
Off-hand pistol shooting.
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Semantics. You're referencing off-hand but what you described is one-handed bullseye. For me, when I hear off-hand, it's shooting from a standing position using one of the various stances - modified weaver, isosceles...etc.
 
Learn to shoot off hand and it will improve your accuracy in the other shooting you do.
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I agree with this sentiment. The importance of a proper grip, sight-alignment, stance, trigger squeeze, breath control, follow-through, etc. when it comes to addressing the fundamentals of accurately shooting a handgun is best manifested in the slow-fire stage of Bullseye competition: 50 yards distance, shooting with an unsupported hand (offhand) and using open sights (back in the day), will separate the men/women from the boys/girls.

Bullseye competition was meant to be a difficult endeavor, not an easy one. Shooting slowly at first and learning the basics of accuracy before progressing to the more practical shooting games prioritizing speed with repetitive shots is good advice, I think.
 
Because it's called a Handgun (singular) not a handsgun. Yea, I'm one of those that shoot iron sights at 50 meters one handed. ;)
 
There are other skills that are best learned with the classic fundamentals.
If you can shoot off hand one handed,you have a strong foundation to transition to other styles.

Lets not forget that in a wartime or combat environment,one hand might be busy helping a wounded person stay on their feet, or hauling a 5 gal can of water or a can of ammo or a spool of wire. Or one of your own hands or arms may be wounded. Any number of scenarios require one hand "not let go" while the other hand stops a hostile.Like having just opened a hot can of Ham and Limas!

Some seem to be crticizing the military for teaching one handed shooting ignores the fact that if you have two hands available for proper isosceles two handed pistol shooting, why aren't you using your rifle?

I'll agree,LEO's,SD shooters,hunters,and combat game shooters will be behind the curve most of the time one handed.
 
By turning sideways, you minimize your profile... making yourself a smaller target in a duel.
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Turning sideways in a duel gives your opponent the opportunity to make a double lung and heart shot...you would be better off with you chest facing front.
 
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