Observation on Indonesia
- Thread starter Danindetroit
- Start date
Clarification....
357 Magfan wrote:
I am not narrow minded, Im just stating what I think from my personal experience, I did say "the Muslims as a whole" but that dosnt mean ALL Muslims, it just means most. Im just saying that mabe we should think a little more about how to help them instead of just throwing money at the problem.
Agreed!
And by the way who was celebrating like it was the the greatest day ever when the Muslim communities found out about 9/11? Did you know they broadcasted it on TV playing there national anthoms and had a holiday?
Yes, but that is still not all Muslims, as you have agreed....
Oh ya and just out of curiosty Jailmedic,.. what unit are you in and where are you stationed? Im with 3/7 Kilo Co in 29 palms.
I probably did not make it clear that I was quoting you in the previous post. I was discharged from the U.S. Army 9/30/70. I have many good Marine friends, though.
357 Magfan wrote:
I am not narrow minded, Im just stating what I think from my personal experience, I did say "the Muslims as a whole" but that dosnt mean ALL Muslims, it just means most. Im just saying that mabe we should think a little more about how to help them instead of just throwing money at the problem.
Agreed!
And by the way who was celebrating like it was the the greatest day ever when the Muslim communities found out about 9/11? Did you know they broadcasted it on TV playing there national anthoms and had a holiday?
Yes, but that is still not all Muslims, as you have agreed....
Oh ya and just out of curiosty Jailmedic,.. what unit are you in and where are you stationed? Im with 3/7 Kilo Co in 29 palms.
I probably did not make it clear that I was quoting you in the previous post. I was discharged from the U.S. Army 9/30/70. I have many good Marine friends, though.
TheBluesMan
Moderator Emeritus
This thread is getting a little ugly, folks.
Let's keep a tighter rein on the ad hominem, m'kay?
Let's keep a tighter rein on the ad hominem, m'kay?
Rich is poor?
Sorry, no sale here......
We are poorer than some of the countries we are helping?
By exactly what generally accepted accounting standards might you be citing such an opinion?
This is a very similar line of argument by which the Bu$h administration wishes to scrap Social Security.
Sorry, no sale here......
We are poorer than some of the countries we are helping?
By exactly what generally accepted accounting standards might you be citing such an opinion?
This is a very similar line of argument by which the Bu$h administration wishes to scrap Social Security.
YES, because it will defuse the terror propoganda that says we are trying to kill all muslims. It would also give us a chance to re-assume the role as leader in the free world. If we were to continue Bush's initial response (screw 'em), I think we would never have any hope of gaining allies we will need to win the WOT. We may be helping some people who hate us in the process, but if we don't that will ensure lucerative recruiting for the various terror groups in the future as they claim that the US wants to wage "war on Islam".
Jailmedic, I got those numbers on 02/01/04 from the Comptroller of the United States on the John McLaughin (sp?) TV talk show. That is more than three years of US GDP and about $100,000.00 in debt for every citizen in the USA.
The Comptroller's name is David Walker. I made a note of the debt because I was shocked when I heard it. And, that debt number is growing.
The Comptroller's name is David Walker. I made a note of the debt because I was shocked when I heard it. And, that debt number is growing.
Maybe if you include our debt to offset income we're poor. Evidently our wealth/donation ratio is average: http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp
(ie, all rich countries give a proportional pittance in foreign aid.)
Along Bounty's line, in order to correct/adjust the world muslim opinion that the US is money-driven muslim-hating bullies, what could be more appropriate than discharging monetary aid to muslims in need? Prove to the common populous that we're not the callous cowboy image that Bush exemplifies. He was voted in on 'Compassionate Conservitivism', and at least we're now getting the compassion part.
(ie, all rich countries give a proportional pittance in foreign aid.)
Along Bounty's line, in order to correct/adjust the world muslim opinion that the US is money-driven muslim-hating bullies, what could be more appropriate than discharging monetary aid to muslims in need? Prove to the common populous that we're not the callous cowboy image that Bush exemplifies. He was voted in on 'Compassionate Conservitivism', and at least we're now getting the compassion part.
Apples vs. oranges
My point about the citation of U.S. national debt vs. GDP as an indicator of wealth or poverty is that what applies to our personal finances does not apply to huge economies. As has been said: "You can lay all the economists in the world end to end and not reach a conclusion."
What you can be sure of is that by any standard, the U.S. is the preeminent economy on the planet and can hardly be characterized as "poor" in relation to anyone. Not to assert that we do not have problems in our economic structures or improvements to be made, but to say that we are "poorer than many of the nations we are helping" is - IMHO - miscasting the discussion in terms no reasonable person would accept.
You will not get any argument out of me as to how stupid the economic policies of the United States have been over the last four years of Bu$hco, Inc. and Uncle Dickey running things. And no, the Democrats aren't any better. They are all prostitutes for their corporate sponsors and will remain so as long as our political campaigns are financed as they have been for the past twenty years.
My point about the citation of U.S. national debt vs. GDP as an indicator of wealth or poverty is that what applies to our personal finances does not apply to huge economies. As has been said: "You can lay all the economists in the world end to end and not reach a conclusion."
What you can be sure of is that by any standard, the U.S. is the preeminent economy on the planet and can hardly be characterized as "poor" in relation to anyone. Not to assert that we do not have problems in our economic structures or improvements to be made, but to say that we are "poorer than many of the nations we are helping" is - IMHO - miscasting the discussion in terms no reasonable person would accept.
You will not get any argument out of me as to how stupid the economic policies of the United States have been over the last four years of Bu$hco, Inc. and Uncle Dickey running things. And no, the Democrats aren't any better. They are all prostitutes for their corporate sponsors and will remain so as long as our political campaigns are financed as they have been for the past twenty years.
Interesting thread.
A variety of thoughts, opinions, and attitudes. While it is all worthwhile, I think the real value is that we can all express ourselves freely and without fear.
While this country and it's government processes may not be perfect, it's still the best that I've experienced in my lifetime, and remains the place that I want to be.
Just my opinion
A variety of thoughts, opinions, and attitudes. While it is all worthwhile, I think the real value is that we can all express ourselves freely and without fear.
While this country and it's government processes may not be perfect, it's still the best that I've experienced in my lifetime, and remains the place that I want to be.
Just my opinion
Danindetroit
New member
We helped afghanistan, against the soviets in the 80's. Did not help.
We pushed Iraq out of Kuwait, was told it was an arab problem, a muslim problem. The US bore the brunt, of the UN coalition. Now since we have a base in Saudia Arabia, at the Saudis invitation I believe, and we also help Isreal, we are hated. Palestinains hate us, I believe the british created Isreal after WWII.
The existence of Jemaah Islamiah is a fact.
Bombings of religous, buildings happened on christmas eve, in 2000. Abu Bakar Bashir claims that he is innocent, and americans are framing him.
http://www.wmcstations.com/Global/story.asp?S=1245112
Here is a list of bombings.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,93803,00.html
Interesting article.
http://www.afsi.org/OUTPOST/2004JAN/jan3.htm
We have mediated talks, and brought a "peace" btw eygypt, and Isreal, that has not helped.
I think we are hated because we are not muslims.
I do not know how many people follow this paticular quote, but when I hear of service people giving out food, I fear for them, can we win hearts and minds, I am not sure. I never said to not help, but the way to help. As to parking aircraft carriers around the islands, remember the USS Cole. It is always the people in btw, that get hurt, the person on the ground. Leaders on both sides preach on, while people are crushed in the middle, usually innocents, or people just trying to do a job.
We pushed Iraq out of Kuwait, was told it was an arab problem, a muslim problem. The US bore the brunt, of the UN coalition. Now since we have a base in Saudia Arabia, at the Saudis invitation I believe, and we also help Isreal, we are hated. Palestinains hate us, I believe the british created Isreal after WWII.
The existence of Jemaah Islamiah is a fact.
Bombings of religous, buildings happened on christmas eve, in 2000. Abu Bakar Bashir claims that he is innocent, and americans are framing him.
http://www.wmcstations.com/Global/story.asp?S=1245112
Here is a list of bombings.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,93803,00.html
Interesting article.
http://www.afsi.org/OUTPOST/2004JAN/jan3.htm
We have mediated talks, and brought a "peace" btw eygypt, and Isreal, that has not helped.
I think we are hated because we are not muslims.
I do not know how many people follow this paticular quote, but when I hear of service people giving out food, I fear for them, can we win hearts and minds, I am not sure. I never said to not help, but the way to help. As to parking aircraft carriers around the islands, remember the USS Cole. It is always the people in btw, that get hurt, the person on the ground. Leaders on both sides preach on, while people are crushed in the middle, usually innocents, or people just trying to do a job.
Bountyh...
I've been following this disaster rather closely since day one and not once have I heard or read from a reputable source that George Bush uttered the phrase 'screw 'em' in response to the death and destruction.
What he did do was assess the situation, make a 'marker' pledge for assistance with the provision that this pledge would be ajusted upward as events dictated. Could you please cite your source for your alleged Bush quote?
(if its from a memo faxed to CBS from a Kinko's in Texas, don't bother).
I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and state categorically that such a quote was never uttered, that your rabid anti-Bush bias has again reduced whatever useful input you had to offer to insignificant tripe and that this pronounced bias puts you squarely in the camp of the radical Islamists who are blaming Bush and the CIA for the earthquake and tsunami.
Nice to know that some things don't change.
I've been following this disaster rather closely since day one and not once have I heard or read from a reputable source that George Bush uttered the phrase 'screw 'em' in response to the death and destruction.
What he did do was assess the situation, make a 'marker' pledge for assistance with the provision that this pledge would be ajusted upward as events dictated. Could you please cite your source for your alleged Bush quote?
(if its from a memo faxed to CBS from a Kinko's in Texas, don't bother).
I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and state categorically that such a quote was never uttered, that your rabid anti-Bush bias has again reduced whatever useful input you had to offer to insignificant tripe and that this pronounced bias puts you squarely in the camp of the radical Islamists who are blaming Bush and the CIA for the earthquake and tsunami.
Nice to know that some things don't change.
sleeping dog
New member
gburner, GWB might have uttered those words, but without knowing the context, they don't mean a heck of a lot.
U.N. officials are complaining that the U.S. is too cheap, too slow to act, and taxes its people too little, and that's contributing to the rising death count.
Screw 'em.
Indonesian muslims might start going after relief workers, especially American armed forces relief, with bombs etc.
Screw 'em.
Some muslim press (don't know about al-jezeera) is claiming American nuclear testing, or maybe just Christian prayer, caused the earthquake that started the tsunami.
Screw 'em.
I read that some clowns in Britain are getting their kicks sending "official looking" death notice email to people searching for relatives. It's a lot of fun, making them cry on tv for no reason.
Screw 'em.
Sometimes "screw 'em" is the best answer.
And as for those indonesian muslims who cheered as each WTC tower collapsed, well, screw 'em.
Regards.
U.N. officials are complaining that the U.S. is too cheap, too slow to act, and taxes its people too little, and that's contributing to the rising death count.
Screw 'em.
Indonesian muslims might start going after relief workers, especially American armed forces relief, with bombs etc.
Screw 'em.
Some muslim press (don't know about al-jezeera) is claiming American nuclear testing, or maybe just Christian prayer, caused the earthquake that started the tsunami.
Screw 'em.
I read that some clowns in Britain are getting their kicks sending "official looking" death notice email to people searching for relatives. It's a lot of fun, making them cry on tv for no reason.
Screw 'em.
Sometimes "screw 'em" is the best answer.
And as for those indonesian muslims who cheered as each WTC tower collapsed, well, screw 'em.
Regards.
TV idiots
We certainly have our own domestic TV idiots, don't we?
If anyone were to judge the nation by FoxNews........
Why do so many people continue to lump all Muslims together as if there were some giant conspiracy?
You don't do that with Catholics or Baptists or Democrats do you?
We certainly have our own domestic TV idiots, don't we?
If anyone were to judge the nation by FoxNews........
Why do so many people continue to lump all Muslims together as if there were some giant conspiracy?
You don't do that with Catholics or Baptists or Democrats do you?
Sleeping dog...
Thanks for the input. Sometimes 'screw 'em IS the best answer but there's no proof that it is Bush's personal opinion or official position. What you have posted falls under the heading of opinion, is not an accurate reflection on the recent tragedy or our response to it. We can imagine anything we like about the president but unless its based in fact... its opinion, is relatively useless and offers no insight into the current status quo.
just like bounty's poisoned opinion.
Do a search on bounty's posts and see what kind of 'documentation' he bases his 'facts' on.
jailmedic...would you prefer that we get our 'facts' from Dan Rather and/or the New York Times? Neither of them would know the truth if it crawled up their pants leg and bit them on the 'nads.
Thanks for the input. Sometimes 'screw 'em IS the best answer but there's no proof that it is Bush's personal opinion or official position. What you have posted falls under the heading of opinion, is not an accurate reflection on the recent tragedy or our response to it. We can imagine anything we like about the president but unless its based in fact... its opinion, is relatively useless and offers no insight into the current status quo.
just like bounty's poisoned opinion.
Do a search on bounty's posts and see what kind of 'documentation' he bases his 'facts' on.
jailmedic...would you prefer that we get our 'facts' from Dan Rather and/or the New York Times? Neither of them would know the truth if it crawled up their pants leg and bit them on the 'nads.
MeekAndMild
New member
jailmedic, I think part of the problem lies in the fact that many people do not have a clue what Islam really means, and a significant number of those who don't know happen to themselves profess to be Moslem.
Why?
Unlike Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Atheism and many/most of the other major religions of the world, Islam does not allow its texts to be translated. So you have people all over the world who don't speak ancient Arabic and who memorize a few words out of context and then you expect them to have a clue as to its deeper meaning. So you tend to get a lot of radicals.
The fact that radical Moslems hate each other as much as they hate outsiders may give a hint to the fact that they are not really a conspiracy, but conspiracy theories are generally hatched by people who have the core belief that people can cooperate to work together.
Why?
Unlike Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Atheism and many/most of the other major religions of the world, Islam does not allow its texts to be translated. So you have people all over the world who don't speak ancient Arabic and who memorize a few words out of context and then you expect them to have a clue as to its deeper meaning. So you tend to get a lot of radicals.
The fact that radical Moslems hate each other as much as they hate outsiders may give a hint to the fact that they are not really a conspiracy, but conspiracy theories are generally hatched by people who have the core belief that people can cooperate to work together.
We are criticized for being capitalists.
Then we are criticized for not handing over enough of the wealth we generate from capitalism.
We are disliked because we are successful and will go on being disliked for that by people who can't figure out, even now, why they are still poor.
Humanitarian aid is a great and noble thing; however, it does not trump all other considerations. In the end our own survival comes first. If that's not "Christian" enough for some, so be it.
My own view is that we are doing more than anyone deserves. That's okay. I admit I don't like the fact that we have a President who seems to have an outsized need to be liked. Maybe he needs to "see someone" about that.
Then we are criticized for not handing over enough of the wealth we generate from capitalism.
We are disliked because we are successful and will go on being disliked for that by people who can't figure out, even now, why they are still poor.
Humanitarian aid is a great and noble thing; however, it does not trump all other considerations. In the end our own survival comes first. If that's not "Christian" enough for some, so be it.
My own view is that we are doing more than anyone deserves. That's okay. I admit I don't like the fact that we have a President who seems to have an outsized need to be liked. Maybe he needs to "see someone" about that.