Observation on Indonesia

To 357Magfan:

"Im also a Marine grunt who has served for a total of 18 months in Iraq so I know more about the muslims than the average american."

You know about THOSE Muslims, not ALL Muslims. The same way I know about ALL Christians because I know about wacko Fundamentalists like the Waco bunch.....

To Wildcard:

"Why does being the biggest on the block make us responsible for the rest of the World? Lets help the victims, but, IMHO, we are not responsible for other countries, nor are we responsible to help out in any way."

Burdens of Empire, old boy, burdens of Empire!

We have enough wealth in the nation to do most anything we want. The problem is we choose to keep people like Dick Cheney and George W. NitWit as millionaire rulers instead of taking care of our poor and redesigning our social contract between government and We the People. The real mystery is how these plutocrats(following Karl Rove) have figured out how to make ordinary people think they are in the same boat with the New Robber Barons. Maybe it starts with an ignorant electorate easily led? Just a thought.....
 
MeekAndMild - My mistake, I thought from reading your posts that you were into sarcasm.

Now I realize that you're right and I'm wrong.

John...it's congenital, I can't help it. Blame it on my redheaded mom.
 
The death of irony....

Baxter:

Very astute observation!

The first four years of the Bu$h administration has seen the death of irony in the American language. What surprises may the next four bring?
We are living the ancient Chinese curse:
"May you live in interesting times!"

Molon labe!
 
We have enough wealth in the nation to do most anything we want
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Not really there are limits to everything, and you must remember this money
comes from the American taxpayer who pays more and more each year in
federal, state, local taxes and in many ways is breaking up families because
both parent "must" work to support all the "wealth" we have.


the hate will come back
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I don't believe it will ever go, I think it's goes against 40 years of pc
training for Americans to believe a religion may not be good for us,
well I guess we can say it's bad if predominatly white. :(
 
Priorities, sir.... priorities!

Wingman wrote:
"Not really there are limits to everything, and you must remember this money
comes from the American taxpayer who pays more and more each year in
federal, state, local taxes and in many ways is breaking up families because
both parent "must" work to support all the "wealth" we have."

I wasn't talking about people who actually work..... I was talking about the new Gilded Age in which people like Cheney and Bu$h and their cronies make millions no matter what happens to the stock market or employment for stooges like you and me.
It only comes from the middle class because we continue to accept the absurd argument that the rich should get richer. Corporate and individual wealth of the overclass is at levels not seen since the 1890's.
Despite all the words about forcing offshore corporations to be good citizens, not a single thing has changed since the lastest bandits were elected in 2000. Has Ken Lay spent one single day in jail? No, and he won't..... but people like you and me owned billions of dollars of Enron stock and they are the ones who suffered - along with the power consumers in California and other states......
Like I said..... we have enough wealth, it's who has it and where we decide to send it.....
 
The problem is, is that the muslims "yes I am refering to the Muslims as a whole not the so called ....few radicals...." are so untrustworthy and hate us so much that is it really wise to blindly send them massive amounts of money? It might make us look good in the short term but I believe it will have long term negative effects, our help will shortly be forgotten and the hate will come back, and now they are 2 billion dollars richer... not a good thing.
And Im not condoning what happened Im just reminding you who our enemy is.
Im also a Marine grunt who has served for a total of 18 months in Iraq so I know more about the muslims than the average american.
By the way I voted for Bush and I believe even he is way to soft handed with these people.
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This is the most bigoted and narrow minded post I have seen on this board in a long time. :mad:

If I use your same logic for you, then you would be a testosterone infested jarhead with no morals or values other than killing... No offense.

Moderators, if I have over-stepped a line here, feel free to delete my post. I just cannot deal with this form of narrow-mindedness. :(
 
This is the most bigoted and narrow minded post I have seen on this board in a long time
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Sorry, I do not believe the poster was as you stated above, I believe he
made a statement from his experience, if we are so sensitive that we
can not listen when people make a statement they believe to be honest
then all we will hear is lies.
 
Jeffersonian creed....

Desert Dog: I like your Jefferson quote.
Here's my favorite....


“I swear upon the altar of God, eternal hostility to every form of tyranny over the mind of man ... "

(Inscribed around the inside of his memorial in DC.)
 
Narrow vs. wide....

Same as young vs. old.....

I suspect that our fine Marine feels passionately about his experience. May he learn to broaden his view to include the possibility that "all Muslims" is similar to "all Americans" - a mythical group.

Time has a way of doing that with minds that are open.....
 
Imagine the impression we would have made if a couple of our aircraft carriers were parked offshore from the hardest hit coastlines. The flight decks could have been covered with helos and medics and S&R teams and food and water.

More than a few important Muslims have said repeatedly that we are judged as a people by what we do, as opposed to who we are.

Rumsfeld talks constantly about "bang for the buck".

I wonder how many hearts and minds we could have won had we done the charitable thing without being shamed into it.

db
 
To be fair, the admin did pony up $35m while the numbers were low. To be just, they didn't adjust after seeing them rocket past 60k until they hit 120k.

To ask 'why is it our problem" along with 'why do they hate us' answers itself.
 
To ask 'why is it our problem" along with 'why do they hate us' answers itself.
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Would be nice if it were that simple, the truth is the more America does
the more it will be hated, somewhat like spoiled children that dislike there
parents, also in very simple terms.
 
Parental arrogance....

We are not the ascendant sub-species some seem to think we are. We are not very different from any other humans in our needs and our desires.
We are, however, blessed with the most favorable geography and (so far) a workable political system.
The fact that so many Americans cast the argument of conflicting socio-political systems in terms of spoiled children who resent their parents authority is precisely why we are considered so arrogant and ignorant by most of the other 3 billion beings we share this planet with.
There is nothing wrong with having a measure of pride in one's country, but when that pride becomes hubris and denies basic fact, it is harmful.
Try reading The European Dream by Jeremy Rifkin to get a perspective on what others think of us and why. We may be the top dog currently, but
Sic Semper Tyrannis......
We still have a lot to learn.
 
Chernobyl death toll - 42 as of 1996

I believe the death toll from Chernobyl was higher than this Tsunami.
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You're off by several orders of magnitude.

http://www.atomicinsights.com/apr96/effects.html
=====
Two people died during the accident itself; one was killed by the explosion and one suffered a heart attack. A third person died early the next morning from thermal burns (he was scalded by steam.) 237 people were initially diagnosed as suffering from acute radiation exposure and were hospitalized for treatment. Of those, 21 were estimated to have received doses ranging from 6 to 16 Gy (600 to 1600 RAD) over a short period of exposure. 20 of the 21 died in spite of intensive medical attention including some highly publicized bone marrow transplants.

Many of these highly exposed people were fire fighters who had severe thermal and radiation induced burns covering much of their body. These burns greatly complicated their treatment.

Twenty-one patients received acute doses of between 4 and 6 Gy (400 to 600 RAD). Of those 7 died. 55 people received acute doses between 2 and 4 Gy with one death. No deaths occurred among the 140 hospitalized people with exposures below 2 Gy.

Therefore, the immediate death toll from the accident was 31. Since the accident, 11 more deaths - possibly caused by radiation - have occurred among the population of highly exposed people, bringing the death toll to 42.

Some of the patients continue to require periodic treatment for radiation related illnesses. None of the highly exposed people were members of the general public; all received their exposure because of occupational responsibilities related to the nuclear plant or casualty control.
=====

How is it that such wild exaggerations about Chernobyl still persist, I wonder?

The scale of the tsunami disaster is among the largest in history. There are other disasters that killed hundreds of thousands of people, such as Tangshan earthquake in China in 1976, or the Huang He river flood in 1887 in China, but even 160,000 is a preliminary number for this disaster.
 
I am not narrow minded, Im just stating what I think from my personal experience, I did say "the Muslims as a whole" but that dosnt mean ALL Muslims, it just means most. Im just saying that mabe we should think a little more about how to help them instead of just throwing money at the problem.

And by the way who was celebrating like it was the the greatest day ever when the Muslim communities found out about 9/11? Did you know they broadcasted it on TV playing there national anthoms and had a holiday?

Oh ya and just out of curiosty Jailmedic,.. what unit are you in and where are you stationed? Im with 3/7 Kilo Co in 29 palms.
 
Burdens of Empire, old boy, burdens of Empire!
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Jailmedic....

Sorry, I dont agree with your answer. We do not have any responsibility to take care of nations that are less fortunate than us. Sorry. The resason we do give aid, and everyone not just nations should as well, is we, as the human race have a moral responsibility to give help when help is needed.


Saying that we have a responsibility, because we are the biggest, richest empire around, is just wrong. Thats akin to saying if I am wealthy, that I have a responsibility to send every child, whose parents cant for whatever reasons, to college..
 
did say "the Muslims as a whole" but that dosnt mean ALL Muslims, it just means most.
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Just keep digging that hole.

I know there may be some animosity on your part due to circumstances, but when you say things like the above, you are no better intellectually than the terrorists themselves. To them it is "us", the terrorists, against everyone else, who are all heretics... As narrow of a mind as they come.

Guess what? We ARE the caretakers of the world. Every country on the planet except maybe China looks to us when things go wrong. We did it to ourselves with our caring and human, outlook and attitudes, especially after WWII.
 
Concerning Chernobyl, an aquaintance of mine was flown at US government expense with quick response burn care team, spent several weeks training the Russians how to do advanced burn care and quietly returned to assume his real life afterward. All this took place while the same bunch of critics complained that the US wasn't doing enough to help. Same song, different verse.

On the one hand we are cold and selfish.
On the other hand we are empire builders.

So is it any wonder some of us are cynics and tend to blow off criticism?
 
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