Obama's Unabashed Socialism: Income Redistribution of Energy Co. Profits
- Thread starter applesanity
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SugarmillMan
New member
Obama's energy rebates are a good way to "buy" a few more votes.
Like in the Carter days a Windfall Profits Tax on oil companies will only further reduce supply as oil companies will loose their incentive to explore, drill and pump more oil. Shortages, gas lines and HIGHER prices will result. Obama knows nothing about how our economy works. He will actually hurt the people he is saying he wants to help. Their energy costs will go up far more than any checks they get.
Not at the expense of the entirety of the nation in which they obtain their profits. At least that's my position. ("nation" = peoples who inhabit a recognized country). Feudalism is not attractive to me. And I guarantee that you/we/me will NOT have access to our Constitution (much less have a gov't system that respects the Bill of Rights) when you're/we're destitute.
Well, maybe we can all starve to death in FEMA camps while the Big Oil companies bring in unthinkable profits... Do you really believe they are benevolent??? Do you not think that they have undue influence in our gov't foreign policy?
Look up "Bridas Oil Company, pipelines" and dig a bit. Then try "Centgas consortium, congressional hearing".
Look up "Bridas Oil Company, pipelines" and dig a bit. Then try "Centgas consortium, congressional hearing".
LightningJoe
New member
Soaking the oil companies is only the beginning. Taking money wherever you can find it. That's what's coming.
The oil companies can't provide all the money the Socialists want. They'll get around to looting the 401Ks, IRAs, and pension funds eventually.
See, you can only borrow money when people are willing to lend it. Also, there's a limit to how much you can increase revenues by increasing tax rates (Laffer). So, when you're 10 trillion in debt, need 500 billion more per year than you take in, can't borrow any more money, what do you do?
Somebody's got money somewhere. Take it.
We're not quite there yet and Obama's career may be over before the situation is ripe, but once the whole Boomer generation is retired and the great majority of them are living on Social Security; when the follow on generations consist of a lot of low-income types and former illegals; and when we have a Federal government that doesn't respect private property,
they're going to go get money wherever they can.
They already control how much you put into your retirement account, how much you take out, and when. All they have to do is tweak the rules a little bit. You reported all that money on your tax returns for all those years. They know all about it.
The oil companies can't provide all the money the Socialists want. They'll get around to looting the 401Ks, IRAs, and pension funds eventually.
See, you can only borrow money when people are willing to lend it. Also, there's a limit to how much you can increase revenues by increasing tax rates (Laffer). So, when you're 10 trillion in debt, need 500 billion more per year than you take in, can't borrow any more money, what do you do?
Somebody's got money somewhere. Take it.
We're not quite there yet and Obama's career may be over before the situation is ripe, but once the whole Boomer generation is retired and the great majority of them are living on Social Security; when the follow on generations consist of a lot of low-income types and former illegals; and when we have a Federal government that doesn't respect private property,
they're going to go get money wherever they can.
They already control how much you put into your retirement account, how much you take out, and when. All they have to do is tweak the rules a little bit. You reported all that money on your tax returns for all those years. They know all about it.
mountainclmbr
New member
Even with the record profits, the federal tax on gasoline amounts to a greater percentage of the price of gasoline than the oil company profits and it hits the consumers, not the oil companies. And even when the oil companies have a loss, the customers still pay the federal tax on gasoline for a product the government did not even help to produce. I wish the gasoline tax could be limited to paying only for roads and transportation infrastructure.
Citizen Carrier
New member
Were that the case, we'd probably have roads better than the Germans.
Limeyfellow
New member
It would make sense if the US had been a fully capitalistic society for over the past century, but it hasn't. It has gotten progressively more socialistic, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse and any modern system that has to survive is a mixture of both.
Of course you could argue that people who pay more tax use more of the natural resources too including the roads and docks to transport goods, the electrical grid, the gas pipelines, the railway lines, running water, lighting, the police force to stop 500 people come and kick down the door and rob them blind, the trading and resource management so they can afford reasonable priced resources, while not stripping an area bare, food production so they don't starve, the working people to keep their life to the standard they become accustomed too and most of these features have only spread through the nation due to government support with large payouts.
The only reason why the west was settled was big government payouts and free land offers for instance, that were backed up by a taxed paid for military to subdue those living there and setup with resources and infrastructure.
A pure capitalistic society collapses just as fast as a pure socialistic society.
Of course you could argue that people who pay more tax use more of the natural resources too including the roads and docks to transport goods, the electrical grid, the gas pipelines, the railway lines, running water, lighting, the police force to stop 500 people come and kick down the door and rob them blind, the trading and resource management so they can afford reasonable priced resources, while not stripping an area bare, food production so they don't starve, the working people to keep their life to the standard they become accustomed too and most of these features have only spread through the nation due to government support with large payouts.
The only reason why the west was settled was big government payouts and free land offers for instance, that were backed up by a taxed paid for military to subdue those living there and setup with resources and infrastructure.
A pure capitalistic society collapses just as fast as a pure socialistic society.
"Tax the oil companies' unconscionable profits!"
That would be a great idea if John D. Rockefeller was still around and reaping all of the profits from the Standard Oil Trust. The major oil companies are widely owned - by me, and you, and all of the other people who have investments in stock index funds in their 401Ks, IRAs, or company retirement plans.
Those are our profits.
But Obama wants to steal from our investments for the future to fund a give-away bonanza to buy votes.
Not with my money...
That would be a great idea if John D. Rockefeller was still around and reaping all of the profits from the Standard Oil Trust. The major oil companies are widely owned - by me, and you, and all of the other people who have investments in stock index funds in their 401Ks, IRAs, or company retirement plans.
Those are our profits.
But Obama wants to steal from our investments for the future to fund a give-away bonanza to buy votes.
Not with my money...
jakeswensonmt
New member
Hey, Chui, learn about the stock market
You know who owns Big Ugly (Exxon?) Your friends, your family, your neighbors, me. Exxon runs a successful business, sells a product that everyone wants and at a marginal markup.
Chui, by your logic, if you were ever to work hard, get lucky, and become rich, I guess we can all count on you to hand it all over to the rest of us. Or if you refuse maybe Obama will just rob you and "redistribute" the wealth.
You know who owns Big Ugly (Exxon?) Your friends, your family, your neighbors, me. Exxon runs a successful business, sells a product that everyone wants and at a marginal markup.
Chui, by your logic, if you were ever to work hard, get lucky, and become rich, I guess we can all count on you to hand it all over to the rest of us. Or if you refuse maybe Obama will just rob you and "redistribute" the wealth.
Sorry, jake, but I'm not a majority stock holder in Exxon. None of my family is, either. Maybe you are. How greedy can one be? You sanction an industry that is, in effect, a cartel.
Exxon-Mobil
Chevron-Texaco
BP-Amoco
Conoco-Phillips
Royal Dutch Shell
Then there are the smaller guys that are still making record profits while the dollar is being eroded to no end. Yep. Reward the industry that unduly influences your foreign policy; a policy that is bringing this nation to it's knees and they make record profits in the meantime.
Look up the following two searches on google, if you will:
"Bridas Corporation, timeline, Afghanistan"
"John Maresca, CentGas, Congressional Hearing"
I've no idea how the US public could identify Socialism [International Socialism] yet fail to identify Fascism [National Socialism].
Once you've studied the documents we can sit and discuss.
Oh, I'd never seek a monopoly so you'd not ever have to worry about me doing to you what the "Seven Sisters" are doing to you; and I have no interest in doing to you what is being done.
Exxon-Mobil
Chevron-Texaco
BP-Amoco
Conoco-Phillips
Royal Dutch Shell
Then there are the smaller guys that are still making record profits while the dollar is being eroded to no end. Yep. Reward the industry that unduly influences your foreign policy; a policy that is bringing this nation to it's knees and they make record profits in the meantime.
Look up the following two searches on google, if you will:
"Bridas Corporation, timeline, Afghanistan"
"John Maresca, CentGas, Congressional Hearing"
I've no idea how the US public could identify Socialism [International Socialism] yet fail to identify Fascism [National Socialism].
Once you've studied the documents we can sit and discuss.
Oh, I'd never seek a monopoly so you'd not ever have to worry about me doing to you what the "Seven Sisters" are doing to you; and I have no interest in doing to you what is being done.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
I removed the companies from your list that weren't even U.S. based companies. Of the companies you listed, Exxon-Mobil is the biggest with a whopping 3% of the world's global oil reserves and an 8-9% profit margin. Everyday these companies have to go out and compete against state-owned, national oil companies (China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Venezuela, PEMEX, etc.) in a global marketplace. They routinely get kicked out of many of these places even after investing a lot of money and you seem to be of the opinion that they need to be made smaller and weaker by legislation?
Are those record profits in inflation adjusted dollars? You note that the dollar is being eroded (because the government is printing more money and causing inflation); but you fail to appreciate the effect this has on those "record profits." For example, Exxon had a record profit of $39.5 billion last year (2007). In 1997, when oil was struggling along at $10-12/bbl, Exxon posted a profit of $8.46 billion on revenues of $120 billion (7% profit margin).
If we break out the inflation calculator (and this is a VERY conservative one based on the Consumer Price Index, which has arguably been tweaked to not reflect true inflation), then the $8.46 billion that Exxon made in 1997, would be a profit of $11.08 billion in 2007 assuming they maintained the same profit levels. Yet, despite the cost of crude increasing over ten times, Exxon profits increased only four times to $39.5B out of revenues of $347.25B (meaning that despite a whopping 11.3% return, Exxon saw a fraction of the value in the growth of crude oil prices).
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