Obama, its not just the guns that have me worried

[FireMax]

sasquatch
I consider myself a conservative, and I do wish that we had a viable conservative choice to vote for. But I'm also practical enough to realize what is at stake in this election. I don't believe you do.

Sasquatch, I understand where you are at on this voting for McCain as the lesser of evils thing. I have been doing this for years. However, I have my limits to who and what I will accept as a "viable" candidate of the republican party. If the GOP nominates John Kerry for president in 2012... will you and other republican voters vote for him then? I know that is a silly example, but think about the premise of the question. I suspect that we all have limits as to who we are willing to vote for... at least, I hope so.

With the nomination of John McCain (presumptive)... my limit was reached. It's just that simple.

I was supporting Ron Paul during the primaries. However, I was willing to consider another candidate except for two. I knew there was no way I could support Rudy Giuliani or John McCain. I could have stomached Mitt Romney, Fred Thompson and maybe even Mike (foot in mouth) Huckabee. I would have gotten behind either one of those three or at least, I would have voted for them. However, because there were so many candidates in the race, the conservative vote was split and this made the indpendent vote more powerful. Of course John McCain appeals to independents. Thus, he got the nomination, not from conservatives, but from independents..... moderates.... or as I like to call them... liberals. It was a fluke... a very unfortunate fluke that he was nominated.

As for me, personally, it is too bad because I have been a loyal republican since Bush41. However, I cannot pull the lever for McCain because I feel he will be a terrible president. If he becomes president, we conservatives will be pissed off at him continually as he pulls farther and farther to the left on issue after issue. Trust me... it is going to happen that way if he gets elected... John McCain is nothing but a liberal media whore. Many of you who will vote for him know it in your hearts. I hope you reconsider.

 

[JWT]

I agree with Sasquatch on this one. If McCain loses it could well be due to the stubborness of 'true conservatives' who cannot accept anything other than their perfect candidate.

Yes, McCain has warts and defects. But even with his less than perfect conservative credentials he's significantly better than the most liberal senator in the current senate - and that's very likely what we end up with if we don't support McCain in spite of his 'issues'.

 

[FireMax]

I consider myself a conservative, and I do wish that we had a viable conservative choice to vote for. But I'm also practical enough to realize what is at stake in this election. I don't believe you do.

That's a fair assumption... I guess. However, I don't consider my choice to not vote for a liberal who believes in global warming a petty choice. On the contrary, I might say that your choice to vote for someone you don't like is a defeatist attitude... you've given up voting the way you want and instead you're voting the way your "party" wants you to.

If McCain loses it could well be due to the stubborness of 'true conservatives' who cannot accept anything other than their perfect candidate.

As a conservative, I'm not looking for a perfect candidate... just one that doesn't turn my stomach when he speaks about grand liberal causes such as global warming.

 

[sasquatch]

I have been a loyal republican since Bush41. However, I cannot pull the lever for McCain because I feel he will be a terrible president. If he becomes president, we conservatives will be pissed off at him continually as he pulls farther and farther to the left on issue after issue. Trust me... it is going to happen that way if he gets elected... John McCain is nothing but a liberal media whore. Many of you who will vote for him know it in your hearts. I hope you reconsider.

I honestly understand your frustration. I have voted Republican for many, many years. And I do not like our choice this time around, believe me.

I might say that your choice to vote for someone you don't like is a defeatist attitude... you've given up voting the way you want and instead you're voting the way your "party" wants you to.

I suppose I view an election as a choice between candidates, however imperfect they may be, and I vote for the one I figure will do the best job. I have yet to see a candidate in all my years of voting who I agreed with 100%, that just doesn't happen.

The only reason I will vote for McCain is because the more I see of Obama the more I cannot stand the thought of where he will take this country. If voting for Sen. McCain will save this country from Sen. Obama, then so be it. It sucks, but that's the reality of where we are.



That's it.

 

[mountainclmbr]

Can't eat as much as we want? What is Obama proposing, food rationing?

 

[wjkuleck]

if Conservatives vote for a conservative Bob Barr rather than a liberal John McCain... it's the conservative voter's fault if John McCain loses

Hey, here's someone that gets it!

I'm not going to be voting "for" McCain; I'm going to be voting against the biggest threat to liberty on the horizon: Barack Obama. It can't be more simple. A vote for Bob Barr (whom I respect most highly) or an abstension is a vote for Obama.

Could you live with that?

I couldn't, and won't.

Regards,

Walt
It's Condition Red, eyes on the threat!

 

[Frank Ettin]

So you have the election results already or do you just read minds?

You're right, I should have said something like, "There's an extremely high probability that either McCain or Obama would be the next President." It is, I suppose, still barely possible for Hillary (or someone else) to be the Democratic nominee. And it is, I suppose, still barely possible for somone other than McCain to be the Republican nominee. If either of those two virtually impossible events occurs, we can revisit this discussion.

... if Conservatives vote for a conservative Bob Barr rather than a liberal John McCain... it's the conservative voter's fault if John McCain loses...

Why do you have to make this about blame? It's simply that a vote for someone other than McCain (or whoever is the Republican nominee) will help Obama (or whoever is the Democratic nominee) win.

And okay, if McCain loses the election he loses the election. It's ultimately his responsibility to win. So what? If he loses the election, Obama is still President.

 

[FireMax]

A vote for Bob Barr (whom I respect most highly) or an abstension is a vote for Obama.

That is a juvenile argument which has already been challenged and defeated by more than one person on this forum. As such, I will let your words ring through the empty minds of anyone who actually believes them.

 

[bushidomosquito]

I don't want to say this because I'm sure that many will jump right on it and call me racist and misconstrue the statement in every possible way but a black president going after guns is going to make a LOT of enemies. There are just too many people in this country who are not going to take kindly to being told by an african american that they can't own guns. I would think that being a black president in a country that is still so full of racisim would be dangerous enough but to go after guns as well in a country where so many people who have nothing left to loose are willing to go on suicidal killing sprees for the media notariety is just asking for trouble. All it takes is one motivated crazy person to decide that you are the cause of their problems and you become a target no mater how well protected you are.

 

[BurkGlocker]

My buddy, who has 20 years active military service, and I were talking sometime back, before the Presidential elections, about how the Islamic radicals and al Queda were going to try to take over our country from within. Now here it is, getting close to having to choose the President of the United States, and thinking back on that conversation, I fear now that statement is coming true. Obama can claim that he is a Christian now, but in my opinion, once a Muslim, always a Muslim. I can see it now, our gun ownership rights being taken away from us; yes the good old U. S. of A. losing its guns. Its happened in the UK, Australia, and Brazil. And what better way to take over a country if the only ones with guns are the criminals or the people who want to take it over. You can be sure, this Red-Blooded American will not be giving his guns up without a fight. Para bellum!!!

 

[FireMax]

fiddletown

Originally Posted by FireMax
... if Conservatives vote for a conservative Bob Barr rather than a liberal John McCain... it's the conservative voter's fault if John McCain loses...

Why do you have to make this about blame?

Dude.. are you serious? Are you going to take my words out of context and twist them around like this? Is that what you consider valid debate? I am not the one who made this about blame... you made this about blame when you implied a vote for Barr meant a Marxist would become president. See quote below...

sasquatch
Standing on your principles and refusing to vote for someone who is not a "true conservative" is fine. Nothing wrong in that. However, when all is said and done, perhaps your principles should be broadened just a tad, to include now allowing a Marxist to become the next President of the United States

Firemax
Oh, I see... if Conservatives vote for a conservative Bob Barr rather than a liberal John McCain... it's the conservative voter's fault if John McCain loses. Gotcha.

I took your arguments seriously at first. Until you apologize for the dishonesty and lack of integrity of this post, I will no longer do so.

 

[Frank Ettin]

That is a[n] ... argument which has already been challenged and defeated by more than one person on this forum....

Nonsense. It is often challenged, but it has not been defeated. It can not be defeated for the simple reason that it is necessarily true that in what is essentially a two party race, a vote not for one must help the other.

If you still claim that this view has been defeated, identify the posts. Simply tossing about insults is not sufficient.

 

[FireMax]

If you still claim that this view has been defeated, identify the posts.

Really? Why pretend you haven't heard this arugment destroyed by reasoned people time and time again?

Like I said.... empty minds.

Simply tossing about insults is not sufficient.

Sufficient for your arguments though, right?

 

[HKuser]

about how the Islamic radicals and al Queda were going to try to take over our country from within. Now here it is, getting close to having to choose the President of the United States, and thinking back on that conversation, I fear now that statement is coming true. Obama can claim that he is a Christian now, but in my opinion, once a Muslim, always a Muslim.

Uh, oh, Marko Kloos will be along shortly to pummel you. Only Christians and Jews are permitted to be reviled around here.

 

[Kragax]

Obama may well be the Anti-Christ

 

[Frank Ettin]

...you haven't heard this arugment destroyed by reasoned people time and time again?

Like I said.... empty minds.

No, I haven't. You've made an assertion, and you can't support it when asked. And instead you call me "an empty mind."

Simply tossing about insults is not sufficient.

Sufficient for your arguments though, right?

And when have I called you a name?

 

[LostOne]

Its depressing - why would any president allow foreign laws to be pushed onto US citizens?

 

[BurkGlocker]

George Washington couldn't have set a firmer set of ground rules for our country than in his Farewell Speech. Free trade with foreign countries, but alliance to none. But a direct quote from the man himself, 'It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.' Thats exactly whats happening today people. Our country's swaying to the influence of others. Weren't we the ones who fought for our independence from tyranny, only to turn around and push our beliefs upon other nations? This man had his stuff together 230+ years ago, and all of the people who run this country have turned a deaf ear and blind eye to the happenings of the past. We're due for another civil war, but I hope it doesnt come in my or my children's lifetime.

 

[miboso]

you can't support it when asked.

Fiddletown, that's what the search function is for. It gets tiresome repeating the same arguments over and over, only to have them ignored.

By the way, living in CA, do you expect any Republican to win the electoral votes here? Talk about a wasted vote. I have admitted previously that I have the liberty of being able to vote my principles since there is no way that McCain would win here.

Speaking of liberal Republicans, we had an opportunity for a true conservative when the Gray governor was removed, instead we got RINO Arnold and look where we are now.
Yeah, let's take this whole attitude national.

 

[Frank Ettin]

you can't support it when asked.

...that's what the search function is for. It gets tiresome repeating the same arguments over and over, only to have them ignored.

It's not my obligation to make your case for you. Whoever asserts a thing has the burden of proof. If your past arguments have been ignored, it's because they are unconvincing.