Obama finally gets it

Obama has one thing on his mind, getting elected to the White House. He is not beyond saying anything to help that become a reality. Did anyone hear him say, "We are the ones we've been waiting for."? Translation: "I'm the one whom you have been waiting for. I am the messiah. I'm the corner stone of the new church of man. The church of the modern day politician. This will not be a HOPE FREE Church".

I think it will be a hope free church. Once Obama gets done with his first fours years, if elected, there will be no hope that he should remain in office. :p
 
Just curious...can someone provide information on examples of where Obama has changed his convictions and opinions on major topics? Not just innuendo...actual information. I do not consider saying you were wrong about the surge as a change of position. I see it as an admission of being wrong. Thanks in advance. :)
 
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http://www.nelsonguirado.com/index.php/asymmetric/2008/07/09/comprehensive-obama-flip-flop-list

CHANGE #1: Despite Pledging To Withdraw American Troops From Iraq Immediately, Barack Obama Now Says He Would "Refine" His Policy After Listening To The Commanders On The Ground

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CHANGE #2: Despite Pledging To Accept Public Financing, Barack Obama Has Reversed His Position And Opted Out Of The System

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CHANGE #3: Barack Obama Is Backtracking On His Support For Unilaterally Renegotiating NAFTA

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CHANGE #4: Barack Obama Is Considering Reducing Corporate Taxes Despite Having Called Corporate Tax Cuts "The Exact Wrong Prescription For America"

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CHANGE #5: Barack Obama Has Changed Positions On The D.C. Handgun Ban

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CHANGE #6: Barack Obama Has Shifted From Opposing Welfare Reform To Celebrating Welfare Reform In A Television Ad

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CHANGE #7: As A Presidential Candidate, Barack Obama Criticizes The Administration's Energy Policy Despite Having Voted For The 2005 Bush-Cheney Energy Bill

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CHANGE #8: Barack Obama Has Shifted Positions On Nuclear Power

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CHANGE #9: Obama Adviser Said Obama Was Not Opposed To An Individual Health Care Mandate Despite His Opposition During The Primary

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CHANGE #10: During The Primaries, Barack Obama Pledged To Filibuster Any Bill Which Contained Immunity For Telecommunications Companies Involved In Electronic Surveillance, But Now Backs A Compromise Bill

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CHANGE #11: Barack Obama Disagreed With The Supreme Court Decision Striking Down The Use Of The Death Penalty For A Convicted Child Rapist Although In The Past He Opposed The Death Penalty

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CHANGE #12: Barack Obama Has Backtracked From His Earlier Commitment To Meet With The Leaders Of State Sponsors Of Terror "Without Precondition"

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CHANGE #13: After Saying Jerusalem Should Be "Undivided," Barack Obama Has Since Backtracked

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CHANGE #14: As A Presidential Candidate, Barack Obama Has Backed Away From His Earlier Support For Normalized Relations With Cuba And Ending The Embargo

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CHANGE #15: Barack Obama Is Against The California Ballot Measure Banning Gay Marriage Despite His Assertion That Marriage Is Between A Man And A Woman

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CHANGE #16: Barack Obama Says That "Mental Distress" Should Not Be Reason For A Late Term Abortion Which Contradicts His Past Extreme Pro-Abortion Views

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CHANGE #17: Barack Obama Said He Would Debate "Anywhere, Anytime" But Has Rejected Joint Town Hall Meetings
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Full descriptions of each are in the article with sources and quotes. There is a big difference between changing positions based on changing factors and making the shift for what is considered the good of the nation and what Obama is doing. Obama caters to one group until he gets all the mileage he can from them then shifts his position to go after another. The good of the nation has nothing to do with his decisions. The good of Obama has everything to do with his decisions. Rev. Wright is a perfect example. How many times did he proclaim he could no more disown him than the black community until... his poll numbers took a hit. Then you saw Rev. Wright, who carried him to victory using racial outrage in Chicago and IL elections, thrown under a bus next to his own grandmother...
 
Here you go ....

Washingtonpost.com

These flip-flops are only up to Feb. 25,2008. I'm still working on the more recent one's. These will help get you started on rebuttals.

Top Four Obama Flip-Flops


1. Special interests In January, the Obama campaign described union contributions to the campaigns of Clinton and John Edwards as "special interest" money. Obama changed his tune as he began gathering his own union endorsements. He now refers respectfully to unions as the representatives of "working people" and says he is "thrilled" by their support.

2. Public financing Obama replied "yes" in September 2007 when asked if he would agree to public financing of the presidential election if his GOP opponent did the same. Obama has now attached several conditions to such an agreement, including regulating spending by outside groups. His spokesman says the candidate never committed himself on the matter.

3. The Cuba embargo In January 2004, Obama said it was time "to end the embargo with Cuba" because it had "utterly failed in the effort to overthrow Castro." Speaking to a Cuban American audience in Miami in August 2007, he said he would not "take off the embargo" as president because it is "an important inducement for change."

4. Illegal immigration In a March 2004 questionnaire, Obama was asked if the government should "crack down on businesses that hire illegal immigrants." He replied "Oppose." In a Jan. 31, 2008, televised debate, he said that "we do have to crack down on those employers that are taking advantage of the situation."
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Wow, that thing is full of falsehoods, misquotes, and exaggerations. There are even places where they changed the word "should" in his original quote to the word "must" when challenging him later.

They also use a quote from Obama in the first part and then a quote from someone else as support for the change later.

They also cut quotes down. In the one about NAFTA, if you look up the full quote, they left out everything except the first word of his sentence. They do that in a few places. Obama will say "No, except for when..." and all they reprint is "No." Blatant misrepresentation.

They also portray any case where he says he will consider something even though he personally opsoses it as a flip-flop. That is not a flip-flop. That is the role of a representative of the people.

They also cite cases where an admitted compromise was reached between the parties as changing positions. That is just a lousy mindset.

They also point out a case where he said he is for welfare reform but did not vote for a certain bill as a flip-flop. That is also not true. He was not a voting senator at the time it passed. He did say he probably would not have voted for a certain bill because of other add ons that had been stacked into the bill. That is a completely different thing.

They try to take him to task for saying that Nuclear power should not be removed from the table but then saying he is not a proponent of nuclear power. That is not a switch of position. That is saying he is not for it but is willing to consider it. That is called being open minded.

Then they try to say he is avoiding debates that he agreed to which is not true. He agreed to debates about Iraq, Iran, and other policies. McCain has offered no debates but instead wanted to engage in staged "Town Hall meetings." The type that Rove was famous for orchestrating and stacking with talking heads.

I shouldn't be able to find that many untruths in an unbiased article quite so quickly. Plus, thee are pretty petty and trivial things where the difference of opinion is very slight, even if you take them as portrayed 100%.
 
The demonstration of very poor judgment, the willful dismissal of facts presented to him, that the success is nothing more hen a coincidence, that he thinks things might have just gotten better on their own and the LACK of admission he was wrong are the red flags of n incompetent leader.

His being consistently wrong and tendency to toss tough situations into the nearest waste basket shows poor leadership.

I understand your desire to divert the topic to something you feel you can contort into a 'that isn't really a change of position' given your support of Obama but I'm not inclined to aid you in that.

His new position that the surge has succeeded, that it is in our best interest that Iraq's sovereignty be secured and not withdraw unless conditions on the ground allow it do fly in the face his 'Bush' failed policy' statements.

Looks like Bush's policies proved to be superb judgment. Ready to give him as much credit as you do accountability? After all if a man is accountable he is accountable, success or failure it is his. McCain presented it and Bush implemented it despite his then bad blood with McCain.

Ready to say 'Good job Mr. President, you stuck to the courage of your convictions in the face of vicious political attack and at the cost of political capital putting the interests of the United States above your own, even above your Party.' It's a fact. He was right and it succeeded. You would be willing to stomp him into the ground some more if it had failed right.

If Obama would have said "I was wrong. The surge did accomplish what it was intended to do and I'm now convinced that implementing this same approach in Afghanistan is the right way to conduct this war." instead of saying it was a coincidence and might have just gotten better on it's own.

The flip flop is tacit as Obama isn't stupid by any measure. He once stood ardently against the Iraqi segment of the War on Terror, he is no longer of that position, he once had the position that leaving Iraq before it was secure would go to prompting Iraqi leaders to act, he is no longer, he now recognizes that Iraq's security is in our best interests ad that pulling out needs to be dependent on conditions on the ground (the 'failed' Bush policy).

He has changed position but more troubling is he has demonstrated VERY poor judgment which was supposed to be what made up for his only 147 days of experience. This poor judgment was in an area of heavy duty importance and in the face of having facts presented to him directly by the Iraqi Ambassador and the General in charge but choosing to dismissing those facts.

I as an individual knew these facts but he didn't? I was pointing out the how and why the surge was working but a US Senator and Presidential candidate didn't? Nah. He knew but held his party interest to be more important unlike the President.

I would hope that any President would hold the interests of the United States above those of his party. Bush did that in spades and Obama does the opposite just as vigilantly.
 
Looks like Bush's policies proved to be superb judgment. Ready to give him as much credit as you do accountability? After all if a man is accountable he is accountable, success or failure it is his. McCain presented it and Bush implemented it despite his then bad blood with McCain
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What? Are you saying going into Iraq was superb judgement????? Putting a very expensive band-aid on a self inflicted wound is not a success.
 
The surge was the reference and you know it. Fight the compulsion to engage in sophistry and misrepresentation if you can.:rolleyes:

As to whether overthrowing Hussein and giving Iraq back to it's people and in that gaining an ally against the War on Terrorism and being and alternative for the people in that region to the cultures they live in that promote and support Islamic Fascism is going to be for history to decide. Whack-a-mole is endless, depriving AlQ and the like of fertile recruiting is the big picture. And yes, I do think going after terrorism from that angle vs. whack-a-mole is superb judgment. It's a cultural problem after all.

According to Maliki himself this approach is already taking effect in a cultural way. Iraqi's 'find abhorrent' terrorism according to him. THAT is what will really defeat terrorism, when that abhorrence is spread throughout the middle east.

Reagan was lampooned and labeled an idiot by the left when he left office too..........Bush isn't the model of conservatism the Reagan was but history may remember him as the leader that brougt about the eventual decline of Islamic facism as a scourge to civilization as Regan did with Soviet Facism. Regan had Bush 41 to follow through for him, McCain stands as the person to follow through with Islamic Facism.

Only time will tell. So far time has told us that Obama and the rest of the Democrat leadership has been wrong wrong and wrong.
 
The surge was the reference and you know it. Fight the compulsion to engage in sophistry and misrepresentation if you can.
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The surge is not an example of a success. It is wiping up spilled milk. It is an example of the kinds of problems a total lack of judgement can cause. It is a costly endeavor to patch past mistakes. It is definitely not something to give praise to anyone over...except maybe the people on the ground.
 
You say the strangest things lately...

The surge is not an example of a success. It is definitely not something to give praise to anyone over ... except maybe the people on the ground.
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Credibility is fleeting when not well maintained.
 
The surge is not an example of a success.
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I have been an Iraq critic. Even at that I have to say the surge was a success. Regardless of how we got to the point we were at the surge was put forward as a solution for moving forward FROM THAT POINT. Fault what got us to that point all you like but it was a solution put forward and it has been a success. Saying anything less is disingenuous.

You do not fault the fire department for putting out a fire on the grounds that you disagreed with there being a fire.
 
It's interesting.

Obama is discussing withdrawal time tables with Iraqi's that would not have been free to make such a discussion if Obama had his way with the Iraq war vote....interesting.:cool:
 
No

It's your backhanded quasi-acknowledgment of the troopers success in actually implementing the commander's surge.

Boots on the ground buddy.
 
Your BDS is showing again........
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It's funny how you miss the point that the very fact supporters have had to try and create this false condition to explain/dismiss the mass recognition of Bush's incompetence is testimony to how pathetic he is in reality. :)
 
Who said anything about patriotism?

Your insecurities or lack there of concerning patriotism are not the topic here or the traits of BDS.
 
Odd question, do you also disregard the success at Midway because of the failure to plan for Pearl Harbor? After all, Midway was needed to compensate for the incompetence of Roosevelt's failure with Pearl Harbor and general management of US policy in the Pacific.

Judge success and failure of actions based on the actions and their effect, not what preceded them.
 
Who said anything about patriotism?

Your insecurities are not the topic here or the traits of BDS.
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Nice deflection from the facts that BDS only exists as a false dismissal of valid criticisms of the true defects of this president. If you cannot fight the message, demean the messenger and challenge their credibility and mindset. In this case they could not keep up with all the real issues so they created a false, wide sweeping condition to try and explain why the president appears to most people to be a complete boob. It's not real...you might want to remember that.
 
Let's say for the purpose of debating the surge, that going into Iraq was a mistake. (That is a separate debate). McCain supported Bush as did many other Senators. McCain differed with Bush and Rumsfeld on how the war was being conducted, saying we didn't have enough troops to adequately win the war in Iraq. He was right. He was a proponent of the surge from day one. The surge has worked. Once we committed to invade Iraq, the debate about whether it was the right thing to do became a point of determining history only. We were in the war, like it or not. So what do you do? You try to win. McCain did not agree that the Bush/Rumsfeld plan would win. This is when the media really put out the red carpet for McCain. McCain took the position that since we were at war, we needed a valid plan to win it. That was the surge. He was for it. He pushed for it. He was praised by the press and others for diverging from Bush.

But now that the surge has worked, and the Iraq situation is stabilizing, Obama, his supporters, and the democrats, are going back to arguing about whether the invasion was a smart move or not. That is still open to debate. Many people have different opinions on that. But, there can be no opinions on whether the surge has worked or not. It's verifiable fact that it has, and Obama knows it, even if he won't admit he was wrong in saying it wouldn't work before it was tried.
 
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