Obama finally gets it

Bruxley

New member
His trip to the middle east has given Obama a long over due reality check. Today he conceded that it would in fact be irresponsible to immediately with drawl from Iraq, the surge succeeded, that we should leave Iraq a self governing ally on a timetable dependent on conditions on the ground. He also agrees with what McCain announced after his trip that Afghanistan now needs to be our focus. Implementing what worked in Iraq in Afghanistan is what McCain has determined to be the next goal. The President has already promoted Petraeus to do just that.

Now his handlers are protraying this as an Obama idea. Amazing how is new ideas resmble McCains long standing position.

Obama is finally getting it.
 
I believe Obama has been saying all along that Afghanistan should be our primary focus and not Iraq. I also do not ever remember him ever calling for withdrawing "immediately" from Iraq. He does support a timetable for eventual withdrawl and shift of power...with which the Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has expressed his agreement.
 
Obama has always said the Afghanistan should be our focus, not Iraq, so this is not a change.

He has also said we would leave Iraq based on time tables... McCain has always been against this, and still is.

Not a lot of change really, IMO.
 
McCain is the one behind the 8ball on this. He keeps saying the Surge was a succcess, if so why won't he bring the troop levels down to pre-surge levels?

It's clear both Bush & McCain want to stay in Iraq to keep their buddies flowing in government contracts and taxpayer's money.

Obama wants to get out between now and the end of 2010. I don't see how that is a rapid pullout.
 
It's clear both Bush & McCain want to stay in Iraq to keep their buddies flowing in government contracts and taxpayer's money.

Clear to who? I don't follow Huffingtonpost or DailyKos or otherwise have a tinfoil hat on, so I can't see the big conspiracy. Can you tell us who Bush and McCain's friends are (and I mean actually name them individually) and show us how they're all getting rich off of whatever?

And how is it that for either years, we hear all these charges made against Bush, and it's only now all of a sudden that McCain is allegedly in on it all too?
 
Saying anything about time tables just proves that Obama does not have the smallet clue about fighting a war. Not mentioning time tables shows that McCain does. Wars are not fought on time tables.

Can you imagine our leaders in WW II saying, "Yep, we'll go to war with Germany, Italy and Japan, but ONLY if we can get out in 18 months."
 
What gets me is Obama is acting like he's already POTUS, stating he would push to get more troops into Afghanistan.

Clever ploy on his part.
 
What has changed ????

He was ardently opposed to the surge....
Barrack Obama said:
WASHINGTON - U.S. Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) today introduced binding and comprehensive legislation that not only reverses the President's … read more dangerous and ill-conceived escalation of the Iraq war, but also sets a new course for U.S. policy that can bring a responsible end to the war and bring our troops home.Our troops have performed brilliantly in Iraq, but no amount of American soldiers can solve the political differences at the heart of somebody else's civil war," Obama said. "That's why I have introduced a plan to not only stop the escalation of this war, but begin a phased redeployment that can pressure the Iraqis to finally reach a political settlement and reduce the violence." Realizing there can be no military solution in Iraq, Obama's plan focuses instead on reaching a political solution in Iraq, protecting our interests in the region, and bringing this war to a responsible end. The legislation commences redeployment of U.S. forces to Afghanistan; and to other points in the region no later than May 1, 2007 with the goal of removing all combat brigades from Iraq by March 31, 2008, a date that is consistent with the expectation of the bipartisan Iraq Study Group. The plan allows for a limited number of U.S. troops to remain as basic force protection, to engage in counter-terrorism, and to continue the training of Iraqi security forces. If the WASHINGTON - U.S. Senator Barrack Obama (D-IL) today introduced binding and comprehensive legislation that not only reverses the President's … read more dangerous and ill-conceived escalation of the Iraq war, but also sets a new course for U.S. policy that can bring a responsible end to the war and bring our troops home.

"Our troops have performed brilliantly in Iraq, but no amount of American soldiers can solve the political differences at the heart of somebody else's civil war," Obama said. "That's why I have introduced a plan to not only stop the escalation of this war, but begin a phased redeployment that can pressure the Iraqis to finally reach a political settlement and reduce the violence."

 Realizing there can be no military solution in Iraq, Obama's plan focuses instead on reaching a political solution in Iraq, protecting our interests in the region, and bringing this war to a responsible end. The legislation commences redeployment of U.S. forces to Afghanistan; and to other points in the region no later than May 1, 2007 with the goal of removing all combat brigades from Iraq by March 31, 2008, a date that is consistent with the expectation of the bipartisan Iraq Study Group. The plan allows for a limited number of U.S. troops to remain as basic force protection, to engage in counter-terrorism, and to continue the training of Iraqi security forces. If the Iraqis are successful in meeting the thirteen benchmarks for progress laid out by the Bush Administration, this plan also allows for the temporary suspension of the redeployment, provided Congress agrees that the benchmarks have been met and that the suspension is in the national security interest of the United States. 

"The American people have been asked to be patient too many times, too many lives have been lost and too many billions have been spent," Obama said. "It's time for a policy that can bring a responsible end to this war and bring our troops home."

And now admits he was wrong....er....didn't anticipate the success....er....well as he he says, nobody has a crystal ball (But McCain and Bush did get it right). Well that's true but the President and John McCain fought hard for this successful surge to allow for exactly the kind of success that has taken place. In Obama's interview with ABC's Terry Moran that will air tonight Obama said it was "fair" to notice that he did not anticipate that the surge of U.S. troops into Iraq would be coincident with the so-called Sunni Awakening and the decisions of Shia militias to reduce their footprints, the combination of which led to measurable declines in violence."

Thats political speak for "My judgment was wrong and Petreaus' direct work with tribal leaders while the troops quelled violence succeeded."

He added "I did not anticipate, and I think that this is a fair characterization, the convergence of not only the surge but the Sunni awakening in which a whole host of Sunni tribal leaders decided that they had had enough with Al Qaeda, in the Shii’a community the militias standing down to some degrees. So what you had is a combination of political factors inside of Iraq that then came right at the same time as terrific work by our troops. Had those political factors not occurred, I think that my assessment would have been correct."

In political speak he is admitting that the local to central aproach Petraeus had implemented in parrelel with the surge to get tribes to sign off on peace agreements was effective and he didn't anticipate it working so well. If i hadn't gone ell then he would have been right. Bad judgement again.

A guy can say he wants timelines and troop withdraws for a year and a half and when, in about 6 months, a 16 month timeline looks realistic as long as conditions remain stable he eventually becomes correct and now claims credibility and good judgement? Wow, talk about a low bar.

Moran noted that Obama had claimed that the surge "would not make a significant dent in the violence."

Responded Obama: "In the violence in Iraq overall, right. So the point that I was making at the time was that the political dynamic was the driving force between that sectarian violence. And we could try to keep a lid on it, but if these underlining dynamic continued to bubble up and explode the way they were, then we would be in a difficult situation. I am glad that in fact those political dynamic shifted at the same time that our troops did outstanding work."

Hello......they didn't shift by coincience. This was always the 'Petreaus Plan'. You know, the one that took 'an intentional suspension of disbelief.' That was the whole point of the Surge, Mr. Judgement - quell the sectarian violence so that political reconciliation can occur. It's no coincidence.

"But," asked Moran,"if the country had pursued your policy of withdrawing in the face of this horrific violence, what do you think Iraq would look like now?"

Obama said it would be hard to speculate. "The Sunnis might have made the same decisions at that time. The ShiiapproachPetraeusparallel’as might have made some similar decisions based on political calculation. There was ethnic cleansing in Baghdad that actually took the violence level down," he said.

Yeah, it might have just gotten better on it's own. AlQ would have just quit spontaneously and stopped working to instigate a civil war. I see this guy has coincidence and 'maybe it will just get better' as his crutch. VERY bad judgment there.

Obama also told Moran that there were circumstances under which he could revise his instruction to U.S. generals to begin withdrawing combat brigades at the pace of one-to-two per month.

"I've always reserved the right, uh, to say---let's say that ethnic, uh, ethnic fighting broke out once again---I've reserved the right to say---I don't--I'm not going to stand idly by if genocide is occurring. I'm not going to stand idly by if vital United States interests are at stake. Um, so in that sense yes, I retain the flexibility anyone who in the job of commander in chief is constantly reassessing facts, risks, and so forth."

In other words "If my judgmentcoincidencePetraeusJudgment conjudgmentjudgmenttinues to be bad I reserve the right to claim I would change my stance.....again....as anyone that is commander in chief would.

Yeah, he gets it now. But he now has to convince people he wasn't WRONG, it was just a coincidence and couldn't be anticipated and it might have gotten better on it's own anyway.

Nothing has changed eh......

OH, the link.......http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=5417331&page=1
 
What is the SOURCE of the jihadist inspiration and hate?

It's neither Iraq nor Afghanistan. Those are just symptoms of the disease.
 
Right or wrong nothing Obama says matters. It is purely stated to gain the acceptance of the latest demographic group he is going after.

He utterly beyond the ability to be trusted.
 
Yes, Obama has changed his position regarding the surge. This is actually a good thing. He hasn't changed his position on Afghanistan, or withdrawal time tables for Iraq. McCain has been known to change positions also. Everyone changes positions as new information is made available. It would bother me more if Obama went to Iraq, learned the surge worked, and was still opposed to it.

I am not sure why Obama changing to a more conservative position angers conservatives. It would seem to me that it is a good thing.
 
I am not sure why Obama changing to a more conservative position angers conservatives. It would seem to me that it is a good thing.

It is because every Obama change is directly tied to political expediency.

All through the primaries he needed the "Get out of Iraq NOW!" crowd to support him. Well, he won the primary so now he can change his tune.

Speaking about the 2A he first fully supports DC and their ban. He then supports the SCOTUS decision, he then supports Chicago's bans...

Public funding... There is another change based on the moment.

Rev. Wright...

Sorry, Obama changes his positions depending on the polls and his need for votes from selected groups. Learning details of the situation and making an informed decision to change based on changing situations has nothing to do with "change" in the Obama campaign.
 
This isn't NEW information.......it's just that he would look even more incredible trying to deny it any longer while sitting in fron t of the very people that brought it about.

links to old threads discussing the very points that aperently escaped a US Senator:

from July 2007

from September 2007:

from November 2007
The very things Obama seems to think were a coinciedence or that needed a crystal ball were being told to him and congress by Petreaus over a year ago.

Back when the surge McCain had pushed finally started.
 
Asked what qualities a politician requires ...

Churchill replied, "The ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow, next week, next month and next year. And to have the ability afterwords to explain why it didn't happen."

Sounds as though Obama has mastered this political lesson rather early on.
 
+1 Musketeer. Obama`s press release speech today proved his whole trip to Iraq was about his own political agenda. Today he tells the troops what they want to hear, tomorrow maybe he`ll tell Al Queda what they want:eek:. This country can`t afford a fence rider for Pres.
 
The very things Obama seems to think were a coinciedence or that needed a crystal ball were being told to him and congress by Petreaus over a year ago.

But wouldn't that require the willing suspension of disbelief to agree with what Patreaus was telling congress? That's what Hillary said. I suspect Obama was supportive of her statement, "at that time". He loves to use that phrase. At that time, he was against the surge. At this time, he ackowledges at least some success. At that time he believed that the DC handgun law was AOK. Now he says he supports the Heller decision, striking down the law as being unconstitutional. Nothing changed there except for Obama's public opinion. At that time he was for a complete ban on concealed carry, nationwide. At this time he never mentions "at that time". At that time he was for a total ban on ALL semiautomatic weapons. At this time he says that was some kind of mistake by a staffer, even though his own hand written notes are evident. At that time he voted against the bill which would have dropped the charges of having an illegal handgun in various Illinois locations where there were handgun bans, when the homeowner used a handgun in self defense. At this time we have no clue what his real take is on that situation, though the Heller decision would seem to negate such laws.

I'm not a rabid McCain fan. I'm very far from that. But, IMHO, Obama is an empty suit, who blows with the political winds, in order to try and maximize his voter outreach. That is politics, but then he cannot claim to be a "new type" of politician. He's just one more example of the SOS. I couldn't vote for him if he was the only one running for POTUS. Whether I'll vote for McCain, or not, remains to be seen. He hasn't sold me yet that he's worth my vote. My vote is the most important vote in the world (to me). :cool:
 
Didn't Obama say he would send troops into Pakistan to try and catch Bin Laden? Isn't that a bit bold? Do Obama supporters agree with that position? How about air strikes? Should we commence air strikes into Pakistan if we know where Yomamma Been' Hidin' is at? I think Clinton tried that routine in the Sudan and missed. How would Pakistan react to cruise missiles landing inside of their borders? How would they react to US troops crossing their borders?
 
Hello......they didn't shift by coincience. This was always the 'Petreaus Plan'. You know, the one that took 'an intentional suspension of disbelief.' That was the whole point of the Surge, Mr. Judgement - quell the sectarian violence so that political reconciliation can occur. It's no coincidence.

Well said.

That kind of work; building strong relationships with indigenous groups and empowering them to fight, is longstanding US Special Forces war fighting doctrine developed over time from WWII through the Vietnam War.

Obama doesn't have a hint of a clue as to what happened in Iraq during the surge. He apparently thinks that this realignment of the political dynamic amongst the Sunnis just happened by magic.
 
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Obama is just saying what happens to fit at this particular time. Give it a month or two, and it will change (again). Obama's beliefs shift more than the sand in a hurricaine. :barf:
 
Obama promises "Change". And change we get. He changes his tune to suit the time and place, or so it seems. We get the small change, the slogans, the sound bites, the most recent (changed) opinion from the candidate. But where is his solid ground? What policy positions will he NOT back down from? What core American principles will he NOT sacrifice or compromise?

[sound of crickets]

Therein lies my biggest problem with BHO. He spends a lot of time telling us where he disagrees with the existing administration and the opposing candidate. But we seldom hear for which principles he would be willing to fight tooth & nail. I get the feeling that like most leftist-liberals, their stance is predicated on the quicksand of that which is expedient or politically fruitful, not on what is right.

I'm reminded by a member of the greatest generation that another national leader's campaign was built on "change". He asked his people "Give me 10 years and you won't recognize your cities!" Adolf Hilter was right - but it only took 8 years before most of Germany's major cities were in utter ruins.

Change may be good. But it has to be the right change.
 
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