NRA, Still Viable...or Lame Ducks?

CAgoatee & everyone else - don't personalize things. Argue positions and desist from personal attacks against another for their views.

And CAgoatee - please reread my post and don't read into it anything that I haven't written.

BTW, I may belong to the NRA, but my life membership predates our AWB and the election of Ahnauld.
 
Goa

AUG,

No organization can save any of our rights, only a significant number of citizens; who get involved, can do that. GOA's job is to help empower non-passive Americans; who will actually do something about it, by giving them the tools necessary, e.g., research and information, in their ongoing struggle against tyranny. GOA, is NOT a lobbyist organization. They continually monitor all the pending legislation in Congress (Congressional Bills can be thousands of pages long), and compose pre-written letters of opposition for any gun owner who takes the time to log into their site, enter in their zip code; so that a list of their Congressional leaders can be automatically inserted into the message(s), and then click "send". If you want to believe that the NRA, who helped the anti-RKBA crowd to write the 1968 Gun Control Act (and other UN-Constitutional legislation), is doing an effective job of helping gun owners to save their guns; and other Constitutional freedoms, then that's your decision. Oh, btw, the NRA is over $40 million in the red, in their "highly effective" efforts (details and url links are in previous posts).

Again, GOA realizes that unless the gun owners (voters) personally contact their own politicians, i.e., taking personal responsibility, that the chances are very slim that our Constitutional Rights will be saved. :(
 
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4V, Re-Read What?

And CAgoatee - please reread my post and don't read into it anything that I haven't written.
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Re-read what? Don't read into it? Please explain....
 
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johnbt -Please Read all of My Posts and Links

"you say that you still trust them to protect your gun rights in the State that you reside in?"

I don't think of any organization as being capable of, or responsible for, protecting my gun rights. The NRA is doing what they can and voting members can encourage them to do more. They are on our side, as are many other groups, and every little bit helps.

John
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John, if you had read ALL of my posts, and gone to ALL of my links and actually READ them too, then thought about it....

My Main Points Are:

1. The NRA is trying to do too much. They are trying to educate shooters, run shooting contests, and are lobbying Congress and State Legislators, which is extremely expensive, very time consuming, and if you look at all of the "gun control" laws that are out there (which they wrote or helped to write), not very efficient nor very effective either.

2. In order for that organization to become effective, they need to narrow their focus, either (1) Educate and run contests, or (2) Monitor Congress and State Legislators, notify gun owners, and provide them with pre-written letters. They can no longer do it all, and as some other posters pointed out, we wonder if they [the NRA] are really trying to help secure and save our Constitutional Rights in the first place.

3. GOA does the tedious research with a relatively small budget - they could use more donations - and they focus on other potential Constitutional infringements as well, e.g., the National I.D. Card, which because of their notifications of concerned Americans, was defeated this Fall. However, GOA has already found similar language buried within other seemingly unrelated pieces of legislation that Congress will be considering in January 2005.

Question: Would you thank the guy who made the hangman's noose for your execution, or the prison guard who makes sure that you don't escape?
 
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Politics, politics (again)

Maybe the NRA helps write legislation because they realize that if they don't, things will be far worse. :eek:
 
Maybe the NRA helps write legislation because they realize that if they don't, things will be far worse.
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It's still a loser of a tactic any way you cut it... Compromise after compromise still leaves you with nothing in the end.
 
NRA is "Helping" by Writting the 1968 Gun Control Act!?

Maybe the NRA helps write legislation because they realize that if they don't, things will be far worse.
__________________
Annie @8-)
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With friends like that, who needs enemies!?
 
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AUG said:
Name one sinle gun control bill the GOA has defeated in DC without the help of the NRA?
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I will ask once again. Come on california you can come up with something better than "GOA, is NOT a lobbyist organization. They continually monitor all the pending legislation in Congress (Congressional Bills can be thousands of pages long), and compose pre-written letters of opposition for any gun owner"

Sounds to me like GOA does very little compared to the NRA. Pre-written letters? You have got to be joking. I really hope the NRA can keep up with that monumental feat.


Anyone got an answer to the quote above?

How about the question I asked earlier about public offices held by the constitution party?

How can a party be viable when they can't even elect someone as block captain?
 
AUG, You Are Trolling

Sounds to me like GOA does very little compared to the NRA. Pre-written letters? You have got to be joking. I really hope the NRA can keep up with that monumental feat.

Anyone got an answer to the quote above?

How about the question I asked earlier about public offices held by the constitution party?

How can a party be viable when they can't even elect someone as block captain?
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AUG,
You are illogical, your thought process is very immature, and as far as I'm concerned - a troll. Therefore, I am not going to continue wasting my time replying to your ridiculous questions.
 
Then why did you reply?

I have responded with absolute logic. It is you, my well intentioned friend, that is speaking from pure emotion and not logical reality.

If anything talking strongly about a miniscule relatively unknown political party is more of a trolling tactic. Funny you have been a memer here for two weeks and I have been here for almost 5 years. I am not saying you are but you are more likely the troll NOT me.

Got any answers to my questions about your party?

What current positions does the constitution party hold? Surely you have one person holding some office somewhere don't you? This a very logical question so just please post the office(s) held by the constitution party.

You have avoided this LOGICAL question about three times. Please answer.

My friend I am pleased you are so passionate about the right to bears arms. However, I believe the things you call me "illogical" and this comment "your thought process is very immature" are very descriptive of you.

Most of the time hopeless idealisim is just that, hopeless. You are a million times more likely to win the powerball jackpot than see the Consitution party in the oval office.
 
Join them both! Better yet, join as many RKBA organizations as you can. I wouldn't conclude that since the NRA does not have a perfect record they aren't worth supporting - they are definitely pro-gun and effective. Yeah, maybe they could spend their money better. Why don't you join and volunteer to help with their book keeping? It would be a donation of time and not money.
 
I agree with joining all of the 2nd amendment groups as possible. I just think the NRA has the most impact and should be the first choice and not a alternative.
 
Initially, I was intrigued by this thread because while the participants of TFL seem to be a mixture of Americana...I kind of assumed everyone was Pro-NRA. (I know, that's what I get for assuming.)
Nothing against GOA or any of the other groups; I think they're great; but until fairly recently, I had not heard of any of them. Yes, it says more about me than them, perhaps, but it speaks to the issue of public awareness. People know of the NRA. Several times within this thread, people have recommended that the NRA stick with training/education of firearms and leave the lobbying to others. To me, the fact that they do both, and have done both for a long time, gives a level of legitimacy to them that the others do not have.
For instance, prior to the Nov. election, the issue of guns came up in conversation several times. Often, friends remarked "Where are you getting all of this? The NRA?" My standard reply was "yes, although there is a wealth of other sources you can turn to if you are interested." Then I would sneak in the fact that the NRA is the oldest civil rights org, which seems to be particularly unsettling for some of my more liberal minded associates. If I continue to get the quizzical look or even a scoff, I have asked them point blank, but nicely, "what do you have against the NRA?" Most of them shrug and then admit that they remember that their grandfather or Uncle Joe or whoever was a member, and that they really don't have anything against the NRA persay, but know they are a pro-gun lobby. "Well, the NRA does more to educate and train in the use of firearms than any other org," I then add. "Youth competitions, law enforcement..." At this point, usually they are nodding that this is a good thing. Then I add, "but, yes, they also lobby for our second amendment rights..." and I gently go into my spill.
My point is that here on TFL, everyone has at least an inkling of what the Second Amendment is all about, but Out There, many people still don't have a clue, or worse, think it is all about the right to hunt. The NRA has the ability to effect the gun-issue on several fronts, which adds legitimacy to the cause.
 
NRA is "Helping" by Writting the 1968 Gun Control Act!?
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There are instances where the NRA helped write legislation that would have been much worse if left to politicians. So, while the legislation was a step back for RKBA, it would have been several steps back if they had not stopped in. The NRA was not our enemy.

Some of you who doubt the NRA’s effectiveness either have short memories or don’t read much. The NRA was instrumental this year in keeping the AWB from being renewed when Dems slipped it into the bill that would provide lawsuit protection for the firearms industry.

http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/siliconvalley/1805Results.html

Note in particular this quote from Feinstein (speaking of the NRA):
"I'm a bit numb ... They had the power to turn around at least 60 votes in the Senate. That's amazing to me."
- Senator Feinstein as quoted in the NY Times 3/3/04
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Instead of belittling the NRA, you should be sending them extra donations.
 
Instead of belittling the NRA, you should be sending them extra donations.
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..and buying NRA friendly stuff! I just bought 2 Crimson Trace laser grips, one for me the other as a gift, through the "support the NRA" option. 10% of the purchase amount goes to the NRA. Add another 1.5% by using NRA credit card. I figure this netted $60 for the NRA. Many ways to contribute! :)
 
The NRA is the only reason we can still own anything other than airguns. I agree with the above poster who compared the whining to the third party clowns. It is easy to be perfect when you have zero chance of having any responsibility.

I am a proud lifetime member. :D
 
About the the 1968 Gun Control Act

Bear in mind that the NRA did not become a true lobbying organization until the 1970's.

Before that time the NRA was, what it always had been, an organization devoted to promoting the shooting sports. It only became a political force to be recokened with when no other options were available.

As we all know, organizations devoted to hunting and the shooting sports are often near sighted and will cheerfully sell out other gun owners if they think it will ward off the anti-gunners. They hope that by characterizing some gun owners as "bad" they will, at long last, be seen as "good" and left alone.

Well, these shooting organizations compromise time and time and again and the usual historical trajectory one gets can be seen in Britain and Australia. Gun owners kept selling one another out until the last shotgun owner finds himself disarmed.

The NRA, however, evolved in the 1970's and went in a radically different direction than its British and Australian cousins. It realized that gun ownership was about a lot more than one's "sport" and that they needed to defend their rights as rights and not as forms of recereation or simply self defense. It decided that instead of cowering in the face of the next round of blows it would dig in and stand its ground.

Thus the NRA developed a robust lobbying arm (the ILA) and started fighting for our rights.

What I am saying is that the 1968 Gun Control Act ispeaks to the old "promotion of the shooting sports NRA" and not the lobbying plus promotion of the shooting sports grounded in the Second Amendment NRA of today.
 
For all of you saying that the NRA needs members, think about this. I have bought a half-dozen guns over the ppast few months. NOT ONCE was I ever told about the NRA, let alone offering to help me join.
 
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