NRA, Still Viable...or Lame Ducks?

C

CAGoatee

New member
NRA, Viable 2nd Ammendment Protector... Or Lame Duck?

I have been shooting since I was 16 (I'm semi-retired now), used to belong to the NRA for years, but finally realized that their lobbying efforts are neither financially efficient, nor tremendously effective anymore. For example, take a look at all the gun laws out there, and the new ones being concocted each day, look at what guys like Gov. Arhhhnold S. are doing (banned .50 center-fire recently, and is very pro-gun control), and realize that the NRA, although beating their chests loudly over the AWB that sunset recently, are no longer the prime movers in the war against those who are vitiating our Constitutional rights. Also look at the fact that our current President said that he WOULD have signed a renewed AWB, if Congress had put it on his desk. (So much for the NRA's big clout with the Republican ticket).

There are several RKBA grass-root organizations out there (other than the NRA) who are far more effective for the dollars spent, e.g. Gun Owners of America (GOA), and Jews For the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO), just to name a few. (It is also a good idea to send them a few $'s whenever you can - they can't do all that research without an income!)

GOA has a mailing list, regular legislative action alerts, and they run a heck of an e-mail campaign! Once you register with them, NO $$ required, they will send you an e-mail whenever a Congressional Bill needs to be stopped and/or changed. You click on the internet link, are taken to a pre-written letter page, and because you have registered, your Congressional leaders are already addressed on the e-mail message(s). Just click to send. Very efficient I'd say!!! One of my Senators gets so many third-party legislative e-mail messages, e.g. GOA, that she is blocking them. No problem, I just cut and paste the pre-written note into her e-mail site, and it's barraging her inbox again (along with a few thousand others).

Further Clarification: Because lobbying on Capitol Hill is very expensive and time-consuming, and because politicians usually only care about being re-elected, and since the NRA only has a relatively small group of lobbyists (remember it costs $$), the politicians; in many cases, just breeze past the NRA people in the corridors, while looking for the bigger fatter lobbying prizes (as in I want to get re-elected again, and that other group over there has hundreds of thousands of constituents that will flood my office with e-mail, faxes, and phone messages if I don't lick some boots right now). The GOA e-mail campaign(s) costs far less to administrate, and can, and do (when gun owners actually do something about it) flood politicians e-mail inboxes with thousands of letters. Very effective, because each letter represents one VOTER, and only voters can put the politician back in office. And that's efficiency, and clout!!!

Last, the biggest problem with the NRA, is that they are trying to do too much. Meaning, are you trying to train new shooters, law enforcement and run national matches (which cost $$$, and take time), or are you watching Congress? (And yes, I am aware of the NRA-ILA). To try and do it all, is just not a wise allocation of resources. Personally, I think the NRA, should at least try to reduce expenses by getting rid of their lobbyists, or better yet, only handle the training and contests, and let other groups like, GOA and JPFO, monitor Congress and motivate gun owners to take action.
 
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Sir, I agree with you but don't agree. There are how many gun owners in the US? If every gun owner was a member of the NRA we would not have to put up with these stupid laws. We need one big hammer, not a bunch of little hammers, if you get my drift. The only thing these guys in DC believe in is numbers. If we had a 10 million membership which is a low number of gun owners in the US, there is not one politician that would not worry about doing the wrong thing. Hell, the Demos would'nt even bring the subject of gun control up! I believe Bush said what he said about signing the AWB as he knew it would never come across his desk.

My worry is 4 years from now. Unless the Repub's can find a great canidate I think the Demo's are going to put on a heck of a fight. Without a stronger NRA we might just loose ground gained here in the last few months. As for CA.... I feel your pain but you guys elected him.
 
The NRA's Day In the Sun is Over, and Their Light is Dimming!

Tim,

The NRA, although the oldest Civil Rights group in America, is struggling to remain a credible organization. Just do an NRA-ILA Google search, and look at some of the snickers by the gun control groups (nothing new, but this is downright embarrasing) at some of the NRA/NRA-ILA's recent fauxpaux's , e.g., in Ohio. The NRA fought to keep gun owner's registrations secret in that State, and then championed a personalized NRA license plate for all of Ohio's gun-owning car owners. The anti-gun groups are howling with laughter. Further proof is the hideous amount of new anti-RKBA legislative motions that are being insidiously inserted into other Bills before Congress, and/or other legislative motions at local levels of government as well. Why hasn't the NRA/NRA-ILA been able to stop this despicable vitiation of our U.S. Constitution?

There are other credibility issues too.

My point is, that the NRA does not realize it's own weakness, that is, that it is trying to do too much with too little. The vast majority of their efforts and monies seem to go to shooter education and national and local matches. A notable and worthy cause. However, their lobbying efforts are hamstrung by their lack of sufficient income to do the job well. I am not calling for the dissolving of the NRA. What I am suggesting, is a change of focus, a narrower focus. That of training the average American who wants to own and use their firearm(s) safely and effectively, while turning over the fight against Constitutional tyranny, i.e., the preservation of our RKBA, to other organizations who's sole purpose it is to defeat those Modern Liberals who are hellbent on destroying our 2nd Amendment rights, and ultimately, our traditional American way of life.

Sadly, the NRA-ILA may not be all that financially sound either, as this post , (albeit 2 years old) demonstrates.

Here is a link to one of the more effective RKBA organizations out there, who's only focus is protecting our inalienable 2nd Amendment rights. Their activism page, where they have pre-written letters that will be automatically distributed to all of your appropriate legislators, can be found by clicking here.

Thanks for replying, and for the feedback Tim. This is something that I have been wanting to write about for quite awhile, but never had the place to post it, until I recently joined this forum. Any critiques and/or further comments will be appreciated. Thanks again. :)

Finally, if you want to look at a fairly new Political Party, who has the RKBA, as one of it's main platform planks, then you can follow the link to the web site of the Constitution Party.

Happy Holidays!
 
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NRA = 600 lb Gorilla - in the eyes of the anti's.

They may or may not be OUR most effective friend, but they sure are target numero uno for the other side.

If the NRA folds, the the RKBA will suffer a tremendous moral loss.

Largely through the efforts of TFL's owner - Rich L. - HCI took a huge hit a couple/3 years ago. It even forced Hand Gun Control to change their name. HCI isn't by any stretch the most effective anti organization, but they have the highest public profile. The repercussins will probably never be fully known. If the same fate were to befall the NRA,,,,,

I'm not a life member of the NRA. Every year or 2 when it comes to dues time, I ask myself , "Am I better off with the NRA being there or better off not having them around?" Usually the answer is I'm better off having them around. Sometimes, the answer is no, and I don't reup. (post 1986 - pre Clinton).
 
Politics, politics

When Bush said he would sign a renewed AWB if it had reached his desk, that was politics. He knew such a bill would NOT reach his desk, therefore he placated the pro-ban crowd with one easy statement.

I wonder, since the NRA has gotten into such financial trouble (through its inefficiency among other things), it might be better for it to stick to its original purpose, overseeing the CMP and training, competition, and safety issues. Leave the politics for a more modern "strike force" like JPFO. Though the Civilian Marksmanship Program is in danger, though less so under Clinton, who nearly succeeded in dismantling it.
 
Republican Help?

My worry is 4 years from now. Unless the Repub's can find a great canidate I think the Demo's are going to put on a heck of a fight. Without a stronger NRA we might just loose ground gained here in the last few months. As for CA.... I feel your pain but you guys elected him.
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Tim, the Republican Party is increasingly distancing itself from those who support the 2nd Amendment. George W. Bush, publicly stated that he would have signed a renewed AWB this past summer, if Congress would have placed it [the Bill] on his desk. As horrifying a thought as that may be, consider that the Republican Governor of the most populous State in the Nation, Gov. Arnold Shwarzenegger, is so anti-gun, that it is beyond pathetic! :mad:

And I did not vote for Arnold; as many of my pragmatic friends did. I voted for Tom McClintock, who was politely asked to step aside for Arnold by California's Republican leadership. I left the Party in disgust, and thank God, have found a very valid replacement! Sadly, as California slides into the Modern Liberal abyss even further; will Ted Kennedy become the next Governor, so goes with it the largest number of electoral votes of any State in the Union. As a result, I am also leaving the State permanently, and heading for the Southeast.
 
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NRA, Fading Into the Sunset, and Now Seen as More Baboonish

NRA = 600 lb Gorilla - in the eyes of the anti's... if the NRA folds, the the RKBA will suffer a tremendous moral loss.
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The NRA, although the oldest Civil Rights group in America, is struggling to remain a credible organization. Just do an NRA-ILA Google search, and look at some of the snickers by the gun control groups (nothing new, but this is downright embarrasing) at the NRA/NRA-ILA's most recent fauxpaux in Ohio. The NRA fought to keep gun owner's registrations secret in that State, and then championed a personalized NRA license plate for all of Ohio's gun-owning car owners. The anti-gun groups are howling with laughter. Further proof is the hideous amount of new anti-RKBA legislative motions that are being insidiously inserted into other Bills before Congress, and/or other legislative motions at local levels of government as well. Why hasn't the NRA/NRA-ILA been able to stop this despicable vitiation of our U.S. Constitution?

There are other credibility issues too.

My point is, that the NRA does not realize it's own weakness. Namely, that it is trying to do too much with too little. The vast majority of their efforts and monies seem to go to shooter education and national and local matches. A notable and worthy cause! However, their lobbying efforts are hamstrung by their lack of sufficient income to do the job well. I am not calling for the dissolving of the NRA. What I am suggesting, is a change of focus, a narrower focus. That of training the average American who wants to own and use their firearm(s) safely and effectively, while turning over the fight against Constitutional tyranny, i.e., the preservation of our RKBA, to other organizations who's sole purpose it is to defeat those Modern Liberals who are hellbent on destroying our 2nd Amendment rights, and ultimately, our traditional American way of life.

Sadly, the NRA-ILA may not be all that financially sound either, as this post , (albeit 2 years old) demonstrates.

Here is a link to one of the more effective RKBA organizations out there, who's only focus is protecting our inalienable 2nd Amendment rights. Their activism page, where they have pre-written letters that will be automatically distributed to all of your appropriate legislators, can be found by clicking here.

Thanks for replying, and for the feedback. This is something that I have been wanting to write about for quite awhile, but never had the place to post it, until I recently joined this forum. Any critiques and/or further comments will be appreciated. :)

Finally, if you want to look at a fairly new Political Party, who has the RKBA, as one of it's main platform planks, then you can follow the link to the web site of the Constitution Party.
 
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"Why hasn't the NRA/NRA-ILA been able to stop this despicable vitiation of our U.S. Constitution?"

It's because most gun owners don't belong to the NRA. If even half the people who own guns in this country joined the NRA, we would never, ever have to listen to Dianne, Chuckie, and Ted again.

Join the NRA!

Edit: Forgive me, but I get very sick and tired of these "what has the NRA done for me today?" threads.

Is the NRA an effective pro-gun organization? Consider their effectiveness as compared to the US Democratic party. The Democrats recently very nearly elected the most anti-gun candidate in US history as US President. The margin of victory in the popular vote was 4-5 million votes. Guess how many members the NRA has.

But don't take my word for it. Ask the gun-grabbers themselves who they consider enemy number one. Do it right now. Here are some links:

http://feinstein.senate.gov/

http://schumer.senate.gov/

http://kennedy.senate.gov/index_low.html

Each of these sites has a search engine. Look for "NRA" and then try your luck with "GOA" or some derivative.

Though I am not a member myself, I am sure the Gun Owners of America is a very fine and dedicated pro-gun organization, and I encourage anyone who wants to to join it. But *PLEASE* don't join them at the expense of the NRA. The NRA is the most effective lobbying group in Washington, hands down. They have a large and motivated membership, but they need more. Numbers, numbers, numbers--that's what counts to lobbyists and politicians.

Please join NRA!











Tim
 
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"Why hasn't the NRA/NRA-ILA been able to stop this despicable vitiation of our U.S. Constitution?"

SAVE US, NRA! PLEASE SAVE US FROM OURSELVES! WE DON'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING, WE WANT YOU TO DO IT ALL, AND IF IT FAILS, YOU TAKE THE BLAME FOR OUR FAILURE TO GET OFF OUR LAZY ASSES!


Let's get something straight, and disabuse ourselves of the notion that NRA can save us without us doing a damned thing -- they can't.

NRA is ONLY successful because politicians realize the clout that the organization wields in the form of voting blocks of members.

When gunowner interest in NRA slacks off, anti-gun politicans can smell that, and that's when they take action.

ANY organization is most effective when the people it represents actually give a damn!

If you know friends who aren't NRA members, get them off their lazy butts and get them enrolled.

Get in touch with your representatives at the local, state, and national levels, and MAINTAIN touch. Get your friends to do the same.

Let NRA know exaxctly how you feel about what they're doing.


"Because lobbying on Capitol Hill is very expensive and time-consuming, and because politicians usually only care about being re-elected, and since the NRA only has a relatively small group of lobbyists (remember it costs $$), the politicians; in many cases, just breeze past the NRA people in the corridors..."

I suppose that's why NRA is routinely voted one of the most effective lobbying organizations at the national level by politicians themselves?

You don't think that the politicans also breeze by lobbyists from other organizations, too? Politicans are, no matter what you think of them, BUSY people. They're not going to stop in the hall to chat up someone if they have some place they have to be. That's why they have OFFICES and staffs who will make APPOINTMENTS.


"The GOA e-mail campaign(s) costs far less to administrate, and can, and do (when gun owners actually do something about it) flood politicians e-mail inboxes with thousands of letters. Very effective, because each letter represents one VOTER, and only voters can put the politician back in office. And that's efficiency, and clout!!!"

1. NRA does that as well, chief.

2. Flooding e-mail boxes is a LOT less effective than you think, especially if all the messages are simply carbon copies obviously put together by a group that tells its members "insert your address here and hit send."

The letters that are effective are the ones that are actually written by constituents.


"NRA should... get rid of their lobbyists."

Sorry, but you're absolute, incredibly, off the mark. Face to face contact by an organizational representative is FAR more effective than you could ever imagine.


"better yet, only handle the training and contests, and let other groups like, GOA and JPFO, monitor Congress and motivate gun owners to take action."

When the other groups like GOA and JPFO manage to garner the kind of sheer numbers clout that NRA has based on its membership of 4 million people, maybe then they'll have the currency, impact, and access that NRA has. Until then, the other groups are only minor players in the chorus.
 
The NRA fought to keep gun owner's registrations secret in that State, and then championed a personalized NRA license plate for all of Ohio's gun-owning car owners
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What's wrong with that? The former is mandatory, and the latter is voluntary disclosure, the all-important distinction. If the anti-gun groups are howling with laughter because they cannot recognize that distinction, then they are logically-impaired - so what's new?
 
Even if the NRA is, as you say, not a prime mover, it is a mover and needs to be supported. In addition, as obvious as it is, you can't cast a vote for change in an NRA election if you're not a member.

The solution is to support all of the groups.

John
NRA Life Member

Please visit www.vcdl.org to see grass roots activism in action. Feel free to join even if you don't live in Virginia.
 
Though I am NOT a Member Myself???

Each of these sites has a search engine. Look for "NRA" and then try your luck with "GOA" or some derivative.

Though I am not a member myself,
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Hmm, all that ranting and raving about people not joining the NRA, and then you are not a member yourself? :confused: Explain that logic for me would you please? Well, at least your honest!

This is the problem folks. Gun owners yell, scream, and howl when another one of our 2nd Amendment rights have been scuttled, but sadly it is GUNOWNERS who are to blame, i.e., many do NOT join RKBA organizations; as in send in the $$$, nor do they get of their asses and vote either.

And I am NOT wondering "what the NRA has done for me lately" either, because the answer is: (1) I let my membership purposely lapse, because (b) they have lost their effectiveness.

The proof is with TimRB's comments, "I am not a member myself." If Tim actually thought the NRA was capable, I sure he would have mailed in his hard earned bucks to support that lobbying group he so admires. Yep, the NRA is going the way of the DoDo bird, extinction. And so are our gun rights sadly! :mad:
 
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I am not a member of Gun Owners of America. I am a proud life member of the NRA, and a life member of the California Rifle and Pistol Association.

Tim
 
NRA Plates

What's wrong with that? The former is mandatory, and the latter is voluntary disclosure, the all-important distinction
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FirstFreedom,

Did you go to all of the links in my post before you made that statement? Consider the logic, i.e., I want to keep my gun registration secret - so nobody can ever know that I am a gun owner, shh, don't tell anyone, but I also want a NRA personalized license plate on my car, that is registered with the State of Ohio, that proudly and publicly proclaims for all who pass by, "Hello everyone, I'm a secretly registered GUNOWNER!
 
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CAGoatee:
When the NRA kept quiet and let Congress pass "The Brady Bill, Assault Weapons Ban" and other useless Clinton anti-gun legislation I bailed out when my membership was up.

The NRA is no longer about guns. They are about MONEY!!! They pick only the court fights they know they can win.
 
Please Read All of the Links in My Posts First

There are links in my posts to a NRA State chapter, and to a California politician who was promised support by the NRA, yet when the rubber had to meet the road, the NRA failed him. There is another link that shows that in 2002 the NRA was in the red by several tens of millions of dollars. I guess the logic there is, that since our Federal Government spends way more money (trillions of $$) than they receive in revenue, then I guess we, the NRA should be as stupid as well? I don't know how that could ever be a good idea. If I lived my life like that, I'd be bankrupt.

Oh, keep believing in the NRA everyone, some fantasies are rather nice - though rarely do they ever come true. And btw, did you mail your Christmas list to Santa yet? :rolleyes:
 
Me:
What's wrong with that? The former is mandatory, and the latter is voluntary disclosure, the all-important distinction
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You:
FirstFreedom,

Consider the logic, i.e., I want to keep my gun registration secret - so nobody can ever know that I am a gun owner, shh, don't tell anyone, but I also want a NRA personalized license plate on my car, that is registered with the State of Ohio, that proudly and publicly proclaims for all who pass by, "Hello everyone, I'm a secretly registered GUNOWNER!
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Me: OMG. That's perfectly logical, when you consider that it's two completely different subsets of gun owners. What don't you get about the voluntariness distinction? MANY, if not MOST, understandably want to avoid MANDATORY listing, if they choose to; if they're private by nature; whereas, it's a completely different subject altogether that SOME happen to want to VOLUNTARILY proudly, publicly proclaim their association with the first and most prominent civil rights organization in the country - the license plates are optional. These are different subsets of the gun-owning & CCW public. That's the correct logic. It's nuanced, so the antis (and you, apparently, unless I'm misunderstanding you) don't get it - big surprise. What you and the anti-gunners have put forth, masquerading as logic, is devoid of recognition of the important distinction of the voluntary nature of the disclosure (vs. involuntary for CCW lists). That's the best you can do to shame the NRA - sounds like a good reason to send more money to them; the fact that that is actually being nitpicked by gun owners. Ridiculous.

But, bottom line - I agree with you that GOA and JPFO and SAF spend your gun-protecting dollars better / more efficiently than NRA. Particularly GOA - they're pre-written mail alerts to congresscritters are outstanding - NRA should have done that 40 years ago. Their focus on lobbying is a good idea. The NRA money on programs like competitions / police shoots, eddie eagle, etc., are by no means wasted - these are long-term foundation-laying efforts to sway the long-term mind of the public.
 
Well, while the NRA is probably the most powerful of the gun lobbies, I do not feel they are trying to win. :eek: If they were to achieve all that they say they would like to get, then the powers that be in the NRA would be of no further use. Mr. la Pierre would lose his big salary and expense account.
It's kind of like when I worked in a production line. The faster I got the job done, the sooner I got laid off. Those of us on that line learned to pace ourselves so we could keep on working. While that may not be the best analogy of the system, it sure seems to fit to me.
Paul B.
 
Just my opinion

I can't say I've done a ton of research on the subject, but it seems to me that without the millions of dollars the NRA spends on lobbying and campaign contributions, I would not even be able to own the handguns that I own, and would be publicly registering my rifles as well, along with everyone else in the country, regardless of what the 2nd amendment says. The real problem here as I see it is the irresponsible manner in which the media negatively portrays gun ownership. Despite the fact that the opinion they portray is in the minority, no politician wants to be seen as a "big bad gun supporter" unless he is getting something in return. Should it be that way? Of course not. But that's the reality we live in.

Just my $.02, for what it's worth.
 
Save Us Nra!!!

SAVE US, NRA! PLEASE SAVE US FROM OURSELVES! WE DON'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING, WE WANT YOU TO DO IT ALL, AND IF IT FAILS, YOU TAKE THE BLAME FOR OUR FAILURE TO GET OFF OUR LAZY ASSES!

Let's get something straight, and disabuse ourselves of the notion that NRA can save us without us doing a damned thing -- they can't.
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Mike,

Thanks for helping to validate one of my main points, i.e., most of the anti-gun legislation would NEVER have happened if complacent gun owners would have actually written those letters, sent those e-mails, and called their legislators, and actually.... voted!
" The GOA e-mail campaign(s) costs far less to administrate, and can, and do (when gun owners actually do something about it) flood politicians e-mail inboxes with thousands of letters. Very effective, because each letter represents one VOTER, and only voters can put the politicians back in office. And that's efficiency, and clout!!!"

1. NRA does that as well, chief.
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If you carefully reread my posts, I stated more than once that I was not calling for the absolute abolishment of the NRA (I did say that their day as as a very effective RKBA organization was fading though - in my opinion). What I also emphasized, NUMEROUS times, was that their main problem was that they were attempting to do too much, i.e., they are not making an efficient use of their resources, because they are spreading themselves too thin (like the proverbial person who just can't say, "no.")! That is quite different from your perceived inferences of my statements however.

The NRA still does a phenomenal job of training gun owners, and their competitions are some of the most prestigious, and valuable in the world! However, if they want to really use their money efficiently, then in my opinion, they should either concentrate solely on either the RKBA issue, or training and competitions. If they want to focus on the later - as I stated in my posts - then there are numerous organizations like Gun Owners of America, who are more than capable, and ready, to step in and take over that job.

I appreciate the argument(s) and feedback, at least you give a damn! :)

Happy Holidays,

"chief" ;)
 
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