Not considered LEO off duty?

Well, just to calrify, I am a citizen just like you, and Im a civilian, just to nip that one in the bud before it comes out.

The reason I feel cops should be trained is that we have a duty to act. Non-police officers do not. If we had no duty to act, and no scrupulous background checks, etc, blah-blah, ad nauseum, than I say whats good for the goose is good for tha gander.

I see the issue with everyone being allowed to carry as this. The Air Marshalls must know who is armed on the planes they are on, as do the pilots and Flight crew. If there are multiple people armed on a flight, this only adds confusion to the fray.

In the real world, I support CCW 110% for all who deem it necessary or desireable. An airplane is a bit of a different matter, however.
 
918sgt-
I've no more reason to "remove you from my files" than I do to "backstab" you.

You come onto my Board claiming a fraternity that those of us "non-former badge carriers" can never understand. I claim a fraternity that INCLUDES YOU.

You attack all "non badge and non-former-badge carriers" with epithets like "Adam Henry" and "Whiners".

I call you on it.

You respond that I need to calm down. :rolleyes:

I remain silent.

You then decide you've been insulted in being called a "non-badge-carrier" and attempt to insult me with a variation of my name that insults me not at all. Very weak, 918.

Fact is, I think you'd have a hard task counting the number of times I've thanked and supported cops and former cops on this Board. I can't count ONCE that you've thanked the other Law Abiding Civilians for their work. See, you seem to have something backwards....you seem to believe "we" somehow "owe" you something; that you somehow have contributed more than we have. Unfortunately, when you take THAT attitude of ENTITLEMENT, "we" don't owe you anything; and you haven't "contributed" anything more than you've earned in wage, benefits and pension. Your career choice. Your transaction.

I don't create the gulf in these circumstances....you do. You wish to leave TFL? The door is controlled by your keyboard.
You wish to stay? You're more than welcome. Just leave your personal attacks at the door.

OK?
Rich
 
The reason I feel cops should be trained is that we have a duty to act. Non-police officers do not.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Police officers have absolutely no duty whatsoever to take action as police officers while off-duty.
 
Thanks, Frank. You close the "Gulf".
We each have the same OBLIGATION to each other....which is NONE. No one has special status of "UNWILLING HERO".

The only thing that can separate us is our wiilingness to HELP and our conviction to some nearly dead words. No one is "obligated"; no one is owed auto-homage for their "Official Position" or disdain for their lack thereof. Only our ACTS, which know no job description, define us.
Rich
 
Sorry to open the gulf again, Rich, but on my dept., we are expected to act off duty. In fact, it's the unspoken reason that our city council won't allow us to live outside our city. According to our policy, the only time we are not expected to act is when the situation is personal. I try not to get involved in petty stuff, but I've made 3 off-duty felony arrests in my career. One for the rape in progress of a 13 yr old girl (turned out it was her uncle & family refused to file charges), one assault/robbery of an elderly man, and one attempted burglary of a neighbor's home. The one time I didn't act, I got crucified in the press. A stray dog attacked a neighbor's dog & almost killed it. I took aim, but the dog ran off. Press said I "was a police officer that should have acted". Maybe someone should tell the fair citizens of my city that I actually have a life of my own. If that came to be, it certainly wouldn't break my heart.
 
Capt-
You miss the point.
Where have I stated that you're not a cop 24/7 should you or your dept decide you are?

My statements regarding the benefits of officers carrying in flight do nothing but buttress that position.
Rich
 
One for the rape in progress of a 13 yr old girl (turned out it was her uncle & family refused to file charges), one assault/robbery of an elderly man, and one attempted burglary of a neighbor's home.
Click to expand...

Quite honestly - in all 3 of those situations, I believe any person has a moral obligation to intervene. Not to make an arrest, but to stop the crime. In the case of the rape by whatever means required, the assault/robbery again whatever means to stop the elderly man from being hurt, and in the case of the burglary by picking up the phone and maybe a camera to take a picture of the bad guys and there transportation if it is obvious.

If people did take responsibility for themselves and there neighbor there just might be less crime. How would that be any different on an airplane?

(notice I put I believe and moral in bold, this is to point out it is my opinion nothing else - I dont expect everybody or anybody else to have the same opinion or believe the same as I do)
 
Sorry to open the gulf again, Rich, but on my dept., we are expected to act off duty.
Click to expand...
Being "expected" to take police action off-duty is a lot different than having a "duty" to take action off-duty. I expect that your department/city would be in for a rude awakening if they tried to take disciplinary action against an officer who decided that he wasn't on duty when he wasn't getting paid to be on duty. Legally speaking, I think it's been well-established in the courts that officers are not required to be on-duty 24/7, much to some cities' chagrin, and much to the relief of others. For instance, how many stories have you seen of municipal governments refusing to pay for the medical costs or a disability pension of an off-duty officer who was injured while taking police action off-duty? Your department may be different, but that doesn't mean you have a legal duty to be "on-duty" 24/7, the opinion of the press notwithstanding.
 
It is criminal for us NOT to take police action off duty. And they do presecute AND we do go to jail. Don't forget also, it seems that convicted cops always get the maximum sentence.

Coop
 
It is criminal for us NOT to take police action off duty. And they do presecute AND we do go to jail.
Click to expand...
Coop-
Say WHAT? :eek: Are you stating that an off duty cop can be prosecuted for not intervening in a crime in progress? In what jurisdiction? Under what statute?
Roch
 
Okay maybe I am that stupid. Go ahead and mark the calendar and call the guys with cute long sleeved jackets.

Denny I hope will forgive me. I have spoken to Denny and exchanged communications with Denny.

Now I must be the only idiot that would feel 110 % comfortable with Denny, a Former Sheriff, carrying a loaded firearm on board a plane I was on. Have I seen Denny shoot? Nope. Never met the man in person. Denny has and continues to train.

Forgive me, but I am going to drop more names, some that are NOT LEO.

FWIW I have only met two members in Person. Preacherman and Larry.

Rich, Tamara , Rob, Erik, Jeff, pax, Preacherman, Larry...I could go on. Heck any of the past or present folks listed as Forum Leaders.

Just me, but I feel these folks and others have the abilty, training, common sense to be safe on any conveyance, with a firearm.

I'm just dumb enough to believe if any BG of any sort knew armed passengers, Pilots, or crew "might" be on board any conveyance - this in itself would be a deterrent to crimes being commited on, or by use of conveyance.

Then again I am the idiot that figures BGs might be dumb - not stupid. I mean they seem to know the areas where CCW are not allowed, and frequent these to commit crimes. Even they know 9mm vs 45 is stupid - they don't want to be shot at or hit by anything.

I kinda figure Pat Rogers, Awerbuck, Clint Smith, would be really safe passengers, with firearms to have on board as well...

Sigh...

Mark the calendar, send the mental health van...I must be that nuts.
 
Coop-
Can't find a cite on it. Can you provide? Also, can you tell me the circumstances under which any officer has been prosecuted?

From what I can tell this doctrine, where present, states:
- Officer must intervene OR report the crime
- Officer must intervene to stop another officer from violating the rights of a citizen

I saw one similar reference on the web, but again without source. Not doubting your word, but I had no idea that Police are REQUIRED to intervene in or out of uniform.
Rich
 
It is criminal for us NOT to take police action off duty. And they do presecute AND we do go to jail. Don't forget also, it seems that convicted cops always get the maximum sentence.
Click to expand...

I'd like to see the statute for that one. I'd bet a dollar and a beer that it says "while on duty".
 
I said take police action. One can interpret that in many ways.

I interpret it as getting involved physically.

There is a reason some people become cops in the first place.

Coop
 
Coop-
I understand what you said.....that's what produced my incredulity.

I'm only asking you to back it up with a cite. Short of that, it's simple Urban Legend.

You are not being baited here. Source, please.
Rich
 
Ah hell, why don't we just charter?

I no longer take commercial airplanes. The last time I flew, and had a great time mind you, I got into a great deal to Alaska, 2003, with a group that had orginally chartered the flight. Sure, cost around $1500 but that included free bush flights with a (was it 150 or 250 miles?) into the Alaskain "outback". We all met in the hanger, I asked beforehand if I could carry, the Captain had responsed "Yup, not a problem, glad another besides me is packing".

And old DC8 or something and then no prob. on carrying in the bush planes.

That, my friends, was freedom.

As for the TSA, Delta, etc.., they will never have the chance to "feel me up" or tell me what I can, or cannot, do. They lost around $450 dollars (not much but if you add up the bush planes, then it came out about the same in the end) and it was well worth it to me.

Me, I don't deal with being "felt up", treated like a criminal, called names by those in authority (stereotyped), or threatened and caused to be a disarmed person at 35,000 feet. I charter from now on. If I can't afford it, then I just don't need to go. That's why other forms of transportation were created :).

Wayne
 
Wayne-
Charter? You mean like in "LuciAir"? :cool:


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Rich,

She is a beaut! :cool: . One day I hope to be able to afford one of those myself.

Naw, this was an old DC8 or 7 or something, a passenger plane that this guy owned. Was expensive to charter but jet fuel isn't cheap, the booze was free and the way the plane was set up, it was like first class from front to back.

Unlike the commercial airlines where you're herded like cattle, prodded, and then packed into a chute with no leg room. (come to think of it, that is exactly what commercial flying is like, never really thought about it before).

Wayne
 
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