not a good hd shell choice?

Don't laugh,
Stoeger already has the Double Defense and the Double Defense O/U:
doubledefense.gif
:eek:
 
I used to keep my shotgun loaded with low recoil 00 buckshot. I still have some Federal LE 132 00 and 8 pellet 133 00 shells. Once I was able to obtain Federal LE 15 pellet #1 buckshot with flitecontrol I'm using that from now on. It is difficult to find these shells now but hopefully it will become easier in the future.
 
I have a Stoegor Condor with an elastic shell holder on the stock filled with 5 Federal 000. Its my home defense gun and a hunting gun at times, very seldom. I also keep a box of 3 inch #4 turkey loads with the gun just in case.
 
Ive never shot a shotgun into ballistics gelatin but I have shot a few hogs between the blinkers with copper plated 5"s while turkey hunting. It killed the snot out of them. I shot one at about 25 feet while he was looking at that camo blob leaning up agains a big swamp chestnut trying to figure out what it was. It took off the top of his head.
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Yet at the same time, I've had #6 field loads fail to put down a sixty pound coyote at fifteen yards and fail to incapacitate a small bobcat hung up on a high fence when shot at dang near contact distance.

I have no doubbt that a load of #4's or larger will kill you at across the room distances without blowing through the walls of you house and killing the neighbors. Anyone who has hunted with a shotgun, has little doubt the effect of small pellets up close. Ive seen a load of number 6's turn a duck inside out at a few yards. While he doent have the mass of a human, I know being hit up close would take the fight out of you, and cause devastating wounds.
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I have no doubt that a single 7.62x39 round from an AK can drop an aircraft if it impacts at just the right spot, and yet most folk likely won't want rely upon that degree of luck if their self preservation is on the line.

The bottom line for me is that I know of folk shot center mass at contact distance with 7 1/2 birdshot who suffered grotesque but not closely life threatening nor debilitating injuries. Relying upon birdshot to penetrate deeply enough into a human to cause rapid incapacitation is a heckuva crapshoot. Ya pays yer money and ya take yer chances.....
 
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Yep on the repackaged Remington heavy water fowl loads. Zippy mentioned that a ways back and the pellets look to be the same. Check Hawks compares the two and concludes with a

Best guess for HD Ultimate HD alloy shot penetration is somewhere between lead birdshot and lead buckshot.
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http://www.chuckhawks.com/remington_HDUHD_shotshells.htm

He basically can't see paying $3 a round for it. I got mine on sale in 10 round boxes for $14.95. (Big Jim, That is the same as $1.49 a round)

One thing I like about it is that if ever needed I want the jury to know that I was using the ultimate home defense round out of concern for my neighbors.
 
Okay I did not search this or even read every post in this thread, but I didn't want to create a new thread on something that may have been stated before hand on a regular basis.

My question is: Is there a HD shell that is frowned upon as far as factory ammo is concerned? For example, Birdshot vs Buckshot, would one or the other make you an easier target for an attorney to make you look more guilty in a self defense in the home situation?

I know nothing about shotguns really and little about guns in general for that matter. I was curious about this though.

I know Buckshot will penetrate more than Birdshot, but will that make you look as though you had bad intentions. Like with handguns your better off if you defend yourself with a standard factory trigger over a custom lighter trigger. Does the same apply for shotgun loads used for HD?

Sorry if you think this is highjacking. I can make a new thread if the OP or Mods would like. Or if someone will provide a link to a previous thread based on this I'd like to see that.
 
I never tire of this subject
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I, on the other hand do. My HD shotguns (I have 2 in different locations) are loaded with 00 buckshot. I am a big boy. I understand the possibilities of collateral damage. I also understand the consequences of failing to achieve the desired results if I should have to pull the trigger.

This is me. I don't really give a flying patoot what you do. If you are willing to gamble your life and the lives of your family on bird shot then be my guest. Throw a rock at them if you like. Express bad intent. Fart in their general direction. Whatever you think will work for you is fine by me.

00 buckshot is what I think will work for me.
 
Sherrif Gotcha; Keep in mind two things. You need something that will do the job, which is to stop the threat and not necessarily to kill. The other is post shooting considerations. If it didn't do the job you may have no post shooting at all.

That is one reason I listened to a wise Zippy bird tweet about Remington HD Ultimate Home Defense ammunition. (The HD stands for High Density and not Home Defense.) You might be able to purchase Remington High Density Waterfowl ammo for slightly less and it is essentially the same, but I like the fact that I am using "Ultimate Home Defense" ammunition for home defense.
 
several years ago my two brothers were rabbit hunting, they each had 12 gauge and 7.5 game loads. it was cold and they were wearing winter coats, brother number one cocked his gun when a rabbit jumped up but he didn't get a shot and forgot to uncock it. he stumbled a few seconds later and shot brother number two, he was about 20yds away from what i was told. they were using cut off barreled single shotguns. brother number two had 1 pellet penetrate his coat and go into his arm. he went to the dr. and had it removed, the coat was full of pellets. i'm sticking with my buckshot. thanks
 
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