No Win Situation?

Whoa! Wait a minute, you people saying, in essence that the husband and his new girlfried being shot and killed is his fault because he didn't end the relationship properly is like blaming a woman for being raped because of the clothes she wore. Regardless of how he ended the relationship she had no presumed right to kill him and the girlfriend because she felt slighted and betrayed.

My ex-wife and I had a MOSTLY amicable divorce but she is not welcome inside my home and I am not welcome inside hers. In fact in the 3 years since our divorce she has been inside my house exactly one time and that was when our youngest son was staying at my house and was very sick. The only time I was ever in her home was when my youngest was moving in there, I helped him move some belongings in.

Be wary of exes, even amicable ones...
 
Just because he was asking for it (or the drunk chick walking around downtown late at night in skimpy clothes carrying her shoes), doesn't mean they deserved what happened, and it doesn't lessen the guilt of the person that attacked them. It does mean they were asking for trouble, and maybe just to stupid or impaired to realize it at the time. Stupid happens to all of us sometimes.

I don't think anyone here has said she was justified in killing him.
 
Thanks Nocturnus31 and Panfisher, It's been quite shocking to hear of his passing. He was one of the good guys.

To a couple of members that seemed to suggest that he would have avoided this situation had he gotten a divorce first, I respectfully disagree. Mrs. Gable was obviously disturbed mentally. Read the timeline article I posted. Even a friend of hers stated that she spoke with Michelle and was concerned for her mental health. They had been separated for over 2 years with her living in Maryland and him in Montana. This played out like a bad "B" movie with her professing her love for him, then shooting him.

I think DonP is right on both counts... a piece of paper would not have stopped her from shooting and we can't assume anything about his private life that wasn't in the articles. We can't even assume who's guns they were.

I also think Patriot86 expressed my belief better than I did in his post. Right or wrong, you can't count on self defense 100% of the time. No win, even if Joe defended himself and killed her in self defense, he'd have to live with that. Of course, PAX is right in her statement.

The other thing that bothers me is I don't carrying when at home. Yes, I'm careful if someone rings the doorbell and I've tried to drill this in my wife's head. Always be aware of your surroundings. Luckily I'm happily married and too old to have crazy ex girlfriends roaming around.

So let me ask this... how many of you carry in your home?
 
I don't carry all the time when I am at home, more often I will have a gun in easy reach.

To be honest, I guess I play it by feel. If I feel hinky I will carry or have a gun close by. If not I don't. Yeah, Yeah...I know I should have gun on me all the time.
 
I can't imagine any way that this situation would have ended in anything but death or serious injury.

If an ex wife invaded my home with a weapon, castle doctrine would allow me to kill her in self defense. Simple.

There's no way I could have pulled the trigger first.

Once again, I encounter a situation that I would probably die because I would be unable or unwilling to take the necessary measures, or because I wasn't prepared enough to win a completely outrageous scenario that was almost like a lightning bolt from a blue sky.

You can't prepare for everything. Some decisions you can't make. There really are, far more often than I would like, no win scenarios that present themselves. This is one of them, unless you are cold enough to do what had to be done.
 
So, are you trying to say better her than him, or what? I absolutely agree that she, being the aggressor, should have been the dead one.

Getting from point A, her barging in armed, and point B, her disarmed and neutralized without anyone (especially parties 2 and 3) being dead is complicated.

I'm serious, I don't think I could face someone I've known forever, lived with, loved at one time, and known without doubt that the only solution was killing her.

There is no gray area. She is armed and you are under the gun. You will have to fire first to save yourself, and you will not be able to just "wing her." You will have to fire for effect, and hope that she fails to get a round into you.

This really was a no win situation. If the guy had actually killed her, statistically, it's very likely that he would eventually have killed himself anyway. Maybe dying without "innocent" blood on my hands would be my best option.
 
my shoulderissore said:
I think this situation points to another means of defense... Seriously, remove the relationship properly before starting a new one. Just like avoiding "bad" parts of town at night, some things just up your risks.
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This story has been discussed before, and I thought it was here. Perhaps I'm thinking of another forum. Anyhoo ... be sure to read the details, and you'll see that Mrs. Gable traveled halfway across the country to do in her soon-to-be ex. There was no question that the relationship was over. She just wanted revenge, and there's no way to predict when someone with that mindset will strike.
 
" Whoa! Wait a minute, you people saying, in essence that the husband and his new girlfried being shot and killed is his fault because he didn't end the relationship properly is like blaming a woman for being raped because of the clothes she wore. Regardless of how he ended the relationship she had no presumed right to kill him and the girlfriend because she felt slighted and betrayed. "


We tell people to have good locks, lighting , alarms and such on their homes in order to minimize the chances of a break in. We also tell them " told you so, should have locked your door " when there is a break in.

Everyone has the duty to at least take basic steps in minimizing them becoming a victim. A woman wearing skimpy clothes and rubbing against every guy in a bar doesn't deserve to be raped, however she is sending the message " come and get me ", what would she expect the outcome to be?

Same goes for a guy that walks into a biker bar and starts talking about how he hates bikers then gets beat up. Sure he has 1st amendment rights of free speech and there are laws against beating people up but, are his actions appropriate or prudent?

Seperated is _married but living apart_ not free ticket to find another friend. Had he run the divorce route first, he might have been able to hide from the soon to be x. Still, there are not many defenses against someone determined to do real damage at any cost.
 
Do you pull and fire to protect yourself, not knowing if she'll shoot, and possibly go to jail for a long, long time thinking the worst will happen and it doesn't, or hope for the best and lose your life? I personally don't know if he was carrying, so the point might be moot.
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Why is it a moot point? Doesn't the question apply to members of the board with re: to what we might do with the assumption that we'd be armed?:confused:

When did a person known to be hostile, require that you hesitate and wait to see if they're going to shoot you with the gun they're approaching you with?

Seems like another "what would you do in a situation you couldn't possibly comprehend without being there" thread. We have plenty of time to second guess what should have been done to someone who had seconds, or even no time at all.

Just my thoughts on the matter.:cool:
 
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There's always lots of mentioning the importance of situational awareness. And yet there are few of us who aren't in condition white, or preoccupied with something that reqires our attention, MANY times during the course of a day.

Some of us are more aware than others, and we should strive to achieve as much awareness as possible. But unless we're trained body guards on the job, Secret Svc, experienced criminals on the run, a high alert situation, etc., our awareness has many vulnerabilities. :cool:
 
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yeah it would have been hard, but from what I read in the artical I would have had to at least try, there would have to be a record that he TRIED to get a R.O. and that would help
 
He knew she had issues, how could he not? Then to be seen with a new gal and a psychotic ex well seems like usding gasoline to put out a fire. I see folks do this crap all the time, get into a fight break up get a new playmate from local bar and the fireworks happen.

Had a gal shoot a 10 ga thru the back window of the bar at her husband was in there with a sleeze gal. Hit 10 or so people and hurt a few bad.

When you are married you are married no exceptio0ns till the Deevorce is a final thing till then.. use best judgement.
 
I will agree, that his behaviors may have exacerbated the situation, encouraging what was apparently an already unstable pile of gray matter to the point that it tipped right out of the rocking chair.

Does that make it his fault, or prove that he deserved it, or any of the other bleeding heart nonsense that is going to be used in her defense?

heck no. All it shows is that he engaged in indiscreet and probably harmful activities that he probably shouldn't have been doing, and that it is almost certainly why both he and the other woman died.

If he hadn't been having the affair, the killing may not have taken place. One solid fact is that if the other woman wasn't there, she would be alive, so you at least have that...

The lesson to be learned is that tactical thinking can't start at the moment the perp pulls the gun. People ought to live their lives constantly wondering what their actions may trigger.

If he knew that his wife was already one cracker short of a package, would he have been openly boinking another woman? Maybe, maybe not, but it sure would not have hurt his situation to be more discreet.
 
I never meant it was his fault, by the way... It's just a precaution, like locking your doors, having proper lighting, etc. Bad things happen, regardless. If you leave your front door unlocked, and lose your tv, stereo, computer, jewelry, to a thief, no, it's not your fault, but the preventative measure was not taken. They may have stolen your crap anyway, and you may have been out a window in that instance, but who knows... Best to lock the door.
 
Does that make it his fault, or prove that he deserved it, or any of the other bleeding heart nonsense that is going to be used in her defense?
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Nope, she shot him so she should be held accountable for it. But he might have used better judgement there. But maybe not, some crazy folk wouold go off just cause he sent the divorce papers so it might have saved one life but I bet the ex would still have gone after him, she is just plain crazy from what I read.

So do you shoot if the woman you had papers served on shows up at your place with a gun? Hard decision.
 
I doubt that stuff will be used in her defense. She traveled a very long way to do what she did.

There was a similar thing that happened here localy a couple of years ago. Exceting that it was the husband, and he commited a home invasion. He killed the man, and shot his wife. Waited a couple of minutes and called his daughter. Then he hystericaly called 911. The wife lived by a miracle.

Strangely enough he was sentanced to 50 years. I seriously was angry with that verdict. He commited capital murder, and was conviced of volintary manslaugter. The only saving point was that he went to trial on the charge of attemted murder for the wife seperately. He was sentanced to 99 years for that one. So he will not be getting parole.
 
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