No Time to Rack the Slide

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I've not been attacked by a person.
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Therin lies the problem. Murphey tends to appear at times when we really don't want him to. If you are having to draw and load your weapon while being attacked is a good time for Murphey to appear.

Thus, I want my weapon loaded to minimize Murphey's opportunities of fouling something up. He gets too many chances as it is.

Biker
 
David Armstrong

We actually had a course at the gun club a few years back that had the shooter fire two separate strings of fire. The course of fire was identical except for the fact that one string started chamber empty and the other started chamber loaded. The average difference in time to first shot was less than .20 second.
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That was a course at a range. B27 targets do not try and rob you in the mall parking lot! While I have never one time in my life ever been in a gun fight in the civilian world (the mere presence of my weapon changed minds a couple times). I have however seen .20 seconds kill people. wether it be in the civilian world or a war zone you NEED every advantage you can get. A rifle carried lacksadaisyly not ready to fire will get someone killed, seen it happen, I have also seen weapons ready save the day. In the civilian world you MUST prepare for the worst, if you can not rack your pistol while fending off one or more badguys (and it will happen, badguys are 3D and not stapled to a target board at known ranges..) You are dead, and just gave the badguy more to carry in the form of your weapon, if you have family or friends with you they just might be killed by your weapon.

When you decide to carry a lethal weapon it aint no joke kids! Violence of action is all you will have when it comes time to be lethal, and you better do it without hesitation or adding non tactical movement by NEEDING to charge you weapon you should have already charged. It would kinda be like only locking your doors after the news reported multiple murders in your neighborhood. You have locks and you probably use them, so why would anyone NOT load their weapon they have the right to carry and defend themselves and others?
 
I do not think imaginary scenerios really ever convince anyone of anything.

I think it just comes down to what level of preparedness you want to be at during the day.

Do you want to simply be prepared for the extremely unlikely (almost negligent) chance you will ever need a firearm or do you want to take the next step and be prepared for the even less likely (almost nonexistent) chance you will be in a split second situation where you only have one hand and no time?

By carrying a gun at all you have already shown a desire to be prepared for the unlikely, now you just have to decide how far you want to run with that mindset.

Chances are (like probably 99.999%) you will never know whether you made the right choice regardless of which way you choose to go.
 
That was a course at a range.
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Thanks, BB.

Do I drop the only thing that matters to me in this world?
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Babies are remarkably resiliant.:D I'd rather see a baby with a couple of scrapes than leave the kid in the line of fire.

I'm writing a story right now about a guy who drove head-on into a family of three. He was going 70mph+. They were going at least 35. We're talking about the kind of crash where the explosion melts the paints off the cars. The DRUNK driver who ran into them and mom in the second car were DOA. Dad hung on for a few hours.

The baby had a nosebleed.
 
I'm bored now! There have probably been 75000 posts over the years on unchambered carry. It's always

1. ND
2. Can't fight quick enough in a blitz

Worry about one and the other side stinks.

--- My view is centered on having the arm out of action. Small but finite risk as I did go through a period like that. Thus, no unchambered for me.

There are no new takes or new arguments.
 
Chances are (like probably 99.999%) you will never know whether you made the right choice regardless of which way you choose to go.
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playboypenguin

The thing is you WILL know if YOU made the right choice when it is over. I never got anyone killed (goodguys) by makeing a bad decision! I have thought "if maybe we would have... this or that, If I would have watched that window instead of the ally.

If you get yourself killed becaused of a bad desision, then who realy cares, if you (get someone) kill(ed) because of a stupid decision and live the rest of your life clear of guilt, then you are less than human.. I do not mean you penguin, I am talking to anyone that would halfa$$ carrying a letal weapon to the point it might jeopardize the welfare of others. Just an opinion.
 
The thing is you WILL know if YOU made the right choice when it is over.
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When what is over? An imaginary scenerio in which you will never actually find yourself?

Like I said, a situation where you will ever have to draw your gun will probably never happen...one where you have to draw and shoot instantly with only one hand available is a one in a million chance.
 
Playboypenguin

When what is over?

Some here have been there done that. What I wrote about is NOT a "scenario". People not a target at the range would have lived if I thats ME could have had 10 more eyes to watch EVERY window, door and ally that day.

I done that, now that I am back maybe what I did and the training I will pass on will save someone someday. thats how I look at it now..
 
I done that, now that I am back maybe what I did and the training I will pass on will save someone someday. thats how I look at it now..
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Still a one in a million chance even if the story is true and it changes nothing about my statement. :)
 
I need not convince anyone of truth. If you are in the northwest area where I am, then you will see me at point defiance zoo with me wife and kids, it is far too nice to waste my extra halfday off inside.

chamber loaded.....
 
We actually had a course at the gun club a few years back that had the shooter fire two separate strings of fire. The course of fire was identical except for the fact that one string started chamber empty and the other started chamber loaded. The average difference in time to first shot was less than .20 second.
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And those were all 2 handed presentations.

You aren't going to be able to draw from concealment and one-handed rack the slide and be close to or faster than not racking the slide.
 
A lot depends on why you're CCWing...I think many posters here (my .02) have a heightened sense of crime and being jumped or suddenly attacked, that's partially because SHTF discussions are forbidden. But there's lots of reasons to CCW sometimes besides perceiving you'rein a war zone...I don't live my life in condition orange, my choice. I've been jumped and dealt with without having to use a gun, I'm lucky, I usually can see something coming, or not go where I shouldn't. I don't CCW to go to WaWa. I just want to be able to stick a gun in my waistband when I want to transport it and not have to separate ammo and weapon in the car, and also carry during the next prolonged power outage or natural disaster.

I keep all my guns unchambered until I'm ready to fire or feel the need becoming imminent. I don't have to worry about practicing with different safety setups. Unless you're LE or military or you've chosen to be in a really bad place, the odds of being suddenly attacked by a determined killer are much less statistically than the safety and existential implications of habitually living life with loaded and cocked mentality everywhere you go.

It's the same "you've got to have every edge possible" mentality. One posts that they occasionally carry unchambered, some folks go nuts, it violates group norms, like admitting using anything less than .40 cal for self-defense rounds, or not using the latest high-tech HP round....

Given the statistics, carrying unchambered is a viable option for most civilians not in hot zone.
 
Playboy has the right idea.
We all love to talk about the "ultimate" response to a threat, but , lets face it, the majority of us will never be in a situation where a couple tenths of a second will make any difference at all.
I think, more than time to first shot, its more reasonable to look at time to 3 or more shots on target.
Ive never timed it but i dont think rackin as part of the draw slows me down any.
JMHO
 
Given the statistics, carrying unchambered is a viable option for most civilians not in hot zone.
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"Given the statistics" which say that the vast majority of self-defense gun uses do not even require that the gun is fired, it is hard to argue with that. However, it's not often you see people advocating that it's a viable option to carry an unloaded gun or a fake gun based on statistics--although it's certainly a valid an argument "for most civilians not in hot zone" if all we consider are the statistics.
 
it's a viable option to carry an unloaded gun or a fake gun
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what about just loading blanks.
Oh, sorry, thats already been discussed ....
BTW john, I know you werent advocating unloaded guns!
 
Carrying an unloaded gun (or one loaded with blanks) violates one of the major rules of drawing a weapon. The rule that if you draw it, you better be willing and able to use it. Carrying without a round chambered does not violate this rule. :)
 
although it's certainly a valid an argument "for most civilians not in hot zone" if all we consider are the statistics.
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John, what else can we go with when planning for safety? I have two kids under the age of 5 in the casa...hard for them to rack most of my weapons...statistics tell me there's more deaths from kids getting guns than not having the additional step in an SD situation of racking a slide; more deaths from NDs, etc statistically. Gives me an idea of what to worry about. Penguin said it best, it's how far you already take the unlikely.

In my state, a CCW lets me pretty much transport guns and ammo anywhere, any way I want. Sometimes a dude wants a piece on him just for comfort. Like when camping in the middle of nowhere or during natural disasters or after a terrorist attack or prison breakout or because you've got to Grandma out of that declining neighborhood. Chambered? Sometimes. Doesn't need to be all the time. Statistics say it'll help me live longer. Like moderate drinking, less sunshine, and green teas. See, guns are natural and healthy? :D
 
"Given the statistics" which say that the vast majority of self-defense gun uses do not even require that the gun is fired, it is hard to argue with that. However, it's not often you see people advocating that it's a viable option to carry an unloaded gun or a fake gun based on statistics--although it's certainly a valid an argument "for most civilians not in hot zone" if all we consider are the statistics.
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Right. The "statistics" represent historical data that are mutually exclusive from whatever situation you may find yourself in when you need a gun. Such data are not good for predicting what may or may not happen to YOU in YOUR situation.
 
Wyocarp
I'm thinking that is too vague. It takes precious little time to rack a slide while bringing a gun up from a holster, in fact, maybe no appreciable extra time at all.
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its evident that you have not yet experienced a mugging, an armed robbery, or experienced the tunnel vision and hear pounding of an Adrenalin rush as you find yourself in eminent danger of being killed.
Benefiting from the experience of others might save your life.
 
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