No Time to Rack the Slide

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This post is not intended as a threadjack. It is not a jab at those fond of semi-autos. It is not meant to be offensive; it is matter-of-fact, and if this thread had been posted in the Semi-Auto Handgun forum, I would not be making this post. I am not trolling.

With that disclaimer: All of the reasons or situations already mentioned are solved or circumvented by carrying a double-action revolver.
 
Carry a .380 in a front pocket holster. Looks just like a wallet when it does print.

BG jumps out "Give me your wallet <expletive deleted>!!!"

Me: Okay Okay, as I reach into my pocket to pull out my "wallet" and I say

"You don't mind if I "rack" it first?"
 
wayward son

An auto-loader with a chambered round and hammer down (on a DA/SA auto) is no different than a DA revolver. One might argue most autoloaders have a safety that may save your life in a gun grab AND have a smooth slick long DA first pull....
 
To rack the slide requires movement beyond drawing a gun from a holster. You have to draw the gun, reach out with one hand and rack the slide, then aim, creating a very distinctive sound and motion. Should the bad guy be prepared, you've just cued him to shoot you. Drawing a ready gun from a holster creates a minimum amount of movement and he won't have the sound as a cue to shoot. He will have to rely on what he sees, and in a lot of situations we don't immediately recognize a gun until there is sound accompanying it. Make your motions as smooth as possible and as economincal as possible. A lot of people have been saying that time isn't that important, it is, in spades. The best way to minimize time lag is to economize your movements. Remember this saying? "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast". Be smooth, can you draw, present & rack a slide smoothly?

Just my $0.02.
 
With a chambered round you are "guaranteed" one shot. If you are relying on a quick rack what happens with a three point jam on chambering the round. Now you are down to, cheap B movies not withstanding, a poor club.
 
Carry

Carry cocked and locked period...
Why waste the time to rack the slide? Not to mention you wasted a spot for the bullet that might save you or a loved one in the fire fight.
My son still likes to carry a round in the chamber with the hammer on down. I disagree with him but that is how he practices his draw and fire.

Papa
 
A pistol with a round in the chamber is a gun, without one in the chamber it's a paperweight with potential.
 
I'm a fully loaded and topped off advocate.

As noted, there are predictable instances where the necessity of having to rack the slide is disadvantageous, regardless of the instances where it wouldn't be a factor.
 
And as far as accidental discharge, keep your finger off the trigger or get a gun that works. I carried with one in the pipe of a semi-auto for a few years before switching to a revolver. Never one accident. I'm also very trigger finger aware. I even keep my finger off the trigger of power drills and water guns.
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Exactly.

I cannot believe this is even worth a topic for discussion.
--Nah, I don't need a seatbelt, I'll buckle it before I crash.
--Maybe I'll ride my motorcycle with my helmet and gloves on the seat behind me...I'll have time to don them in the critical moment.
--I'll drive my car without insurance, hey, I can call my agent as soon as I lock the brakes...
--Who needs health insurance, I'll get coverage as soon as I'm diagnosed wih cancer..

Mike Tyson? Hey, I'll kick his butt! Here, let me tie one arm behind my back and put on this blindfold first... :rolleyes:
 
Scenario

Let say I am leaving the grocery store carring my infant son in one arm and a bag of groceries in the other. Someone is approaching me and an attack is immenent. Do I drop the only thing that matters to me in this world?

Cocked and locked my friend.
 
unless you carry your revolver with an empty chamber also I don't understand why you would on a semi. What's the purpose of keeping it empty?


what do you think would have happened to you when those lions attacked if you had a semi with an empty chamber instead of that revolver?
 
condition one

I will cheerfully drop STUFF! I will not drop children. Condition one is the only way to insure the ability to get your weapon into play reliably without further jeopardizing the child or infant in your arms. I have faced this exact reality many years past. The event was resolved without shots fired but only because the weapon was up and ready to fire quickly and smoothly and was recognized by the threat who fled immediately. My own body was easily interposed between the toddler I was carrying and the threat.
 
I think the problem that needs to be adressed here is being discussed, but needs to be brought up in words.
That is Is keeping the chamber empty and racking the action when I need the firearm worth the trade off. Can those preciouse split seconds compensate for the risk of having a higher pissibility of a negligent discharge by keeping a round in the chamber?
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That is exactly it. I know that some on here are quite proficient. I am also quite sure that some don't use their guns enough. Should we all carry them in the same way?
 
Everyone is speaking of racking the slide in terms of "time." Think of it as a step in a process, albeit an unnecessary step. When you add a step to any process you add the potential for errors [slippery hands, injury or being restrained preventing a step from occurring, etc.] . Remember K.I.S.S., point and shoot, this alone under a stressful situation may in itself be difficult for those who do not train regularly, why add an unnecessary step? The advent of the firing pin block makes it 'safe' to carry a round chambered (not trying to open a can of worms with that statement). I vote for a chambered round
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A lot of good points. Thanks.
 
I think it was Col. Jeff Cooper said that in a gun fight mindset is one of the most important factors. If you are afraid to carry a chambered round I think your mindset is really in a fog. If you are afraid to carry a chambered round you probably shouldn't be carrying a sidearm in the first place!
 
That is exactly it. I know that some on here are quite proficient. I am also quite sure that some don't use their guns enough. Should we all carry them in the same way?
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If one is so disinclined to practice or is so incompetent that an ND is a likely outcome, then one should seriously re-consider the responsibilities inherent in carrying. Period.
 
I'm thinking that is too vague. It takes precious little time to rack a slide while bringing a gun up from a holster, in fact, maybe no appreciable extra time at all.
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Correct, and there is another point to go with that. First, right, it does not take any appreciable extra time to rack the slide during the presentation. We actually had a course at the gun club a few years back that had the shooter fire two separate strings of fire. The course of fire was identical except for the fact that one string started chamber empty and the other started chamber loaded. The average difference in time to first shot was less than .20 second. For some shooters, the chamber empty was actually faster on some presentations, but nobody found it to be much slower. And if the big concern is "how fast" the way you carry the gun (IWB.OWB, position of holster, on or off-body, cover garments, etc.) will impact that time as much or more than having a round in the chamber or not.
The other point, and I think the bigger point, is "If there is a difference, does it matter?" And the answer seems to be a rather resounding "no". For it to matter the incident has to break down into a very narrow time frame where you still have time to draw the gun, but don't have tome to chamber the round. If it is on either side of that very narrow 1/4 second (estimated) time frame it does not matter.
About the only legitimate problem is the one-handed issue, and apparently it isn't much of an issue. Throughout most of our autoloading handgun history the usual carry made has been chamber empty. If there was a big problem with this, we would have heard about it. We haven't.
From a pure gunfighting position, chamber loaded is better. However, there is lots to life besides gunfighting, and taken as a whole chamber empty can be a viable solution for certain people in certain situations. Either way, it doesn't matter much. My $.02
 
At risk of being flamed...

... the one-handed issue is another reason why at least some martial arts training is useful, specifically, training in evading grabs and strikes.

I'm not talking about in-your-face, mano a mano brawling, but learning how to quickly and efficiently use foot movement and hip position to get out of harm's way long enough to draw and fire if necessary.

These are useful skills regardless of age or physical conditioning, unless one really has trouble even walking.

Aikido, judo, and jujutsu are all good styles for breaking or evading grabs, and redirecting strikes. Tai Chi is user-friendly to older or less fit students, and has the added bonus of greatly improving the fitness of its students through slow-motion, low impact movement.

Some schools also teach how to draw a weapon while being grabbed by the strong hand's wrist. While the usual focus is on blades, it also applies to sidearms. You'd be surprised at how easy it is to complete the draw, when you know how to move. You probably wouldn't be surprised at how hard this is, if you only try to meet strength with strength.
 
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